Your Moisturizer Questions Answered

[Intro] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Facially Conscious with myself, Trina Renea, esthetician, Dr. Vicki Rapaport, dermatologist, Rebecca Gadberry, the cosmetic ingredient guru, and our fabulous, overly-educated consumer, Julie Falls. We are gathered here together with you to talk about this crazy world of esthetics. It's confusing out there in this big wide world. 

That's why we are here to help explain it to you all, subject by subject. We will be your go-to girls, and from our perspective without giving medical advice, we will keep things facially conscious.

Let's get started. 

00:59 Julie Falls: Welcome to Facially Conscious. I'm Julie Falls, your highly educated consumer. Today, we're going to talk about something very exciting. Moisturizers. Everything you've always wanted to know, everything you ask your best friends, your doctors, your esthetician, everything you read about. We're going to dispel all the myths. Everything you've wanted to know and more. We have our highly-trained team of experts here. 

But before we get to that, we have Trina, who is our esthetician who's got a tip for us that she's going to share about moisturizers before we do our deep, deep dive. Trina.

01:44 Trina Renea: Good morning, Julie. 

01:45 Julie Falls: Hello. 

01:46 Trina Renea: Hi. So the tip that I want to give about moisturizers that I often see a lot of clients do is they'll take their moisturizer into their hand and then they'll just rub their palms and hand together and then put it all over their face. 

I suggest that people put their moisturizer into their hand and then touch it with like two fingers and spread it onto their face slowly and evenly all over so that they don't get their moisturizer in between their fingers and soaked into their hand, because they'll waste so much moisturizer that way. I tell everybody that and it saves them like a month of use of moisturizer. 

02:28 Julie Falls: Okay. I am certainly guilty of doing that because I've been told that it warms the product and really heightens up the efficacy. 

02:37 Trina Renea: You know what? Warm the product by holding your fingers over it in your hand. Because when you rub your palms and your hands together, you rub it into your hands and also it gets in between your fingers and you lose it. 

02:49 Julie Falls: Okay. Great tip. 

Well, joining us today is Dr. Vicki Rapaport, our Beverly Hills dermatologist. I almost called you Dr. Rebecca Gadberry. Is it okay if I call you that? 

03:03 Trina Renea: People often do.

03:04 Julie Falls: Rebecca Gadberry is our legendary skin care pioneer. And again, Trina is our skin master esthetician. And ladies, let's get into this moisturizer situation, because I'm not even sold on Trina's tip, even though I love her. 

But, Rebecca, I sort of saw you making a little face. 

03:25 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, I was thinking the same thing as you, Julie, because I had been told, and this was by somebody who worked behind the counter at an old department store. I don't know if anybody remembers Bullocks. 

03:37 Julie Falls: Sure. 

03:37 Rebecca Gadberry: In California.

03:39 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I called it Bullocks.

03:41 Rebecca Gadberry: Bullocks, yes. So that tells you how old this is, because Bullocks hasn't been around since the ‘90s. But I was told that, yeah, you rub it between your fingertips and then you apply it in dots on your face.

03:54 Trina Renea: Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah, of course. 

03:57 Rebecca Gadberry: And I can see where you're coming from. 

03:59 Trina Renea: Yeah, because people put the moisturizer and they're going like this, and then they're rubbing it into their hands and it's getting in between their fingers. 

04:05 Rebecca Gadberry: Their hands are dry then it's going to soak the moisturizer.

04:07 Julie Falls: They're using ____. Okay. 

04:09 Trina Renea: And then you don't get a lot on your face, so then you dip in for more. You do this and so people waste it. And I literally have clients that come back and go, “Oh, my God, it lasted me three months instead of two months,” or two months instead of one month.

04:22 Rebecca Gadberry: And people at home might be thinking, “Well, if it's going to soak into my hands, don't they need it?”

04:28 Trina Renea: Yeah, use a body moisturizer. 

04:30 Rebecca Gadberry: Why do you put on a moisturizer that may have all sorts of wonderful age-fighting ingredients to work on wrinkles and lines and pore size on your hands? Use something different for your hands. Would you agree with that? 

04:44 Trina Renea: Yes, for sure. 

04:45 Rebecca Gadberry: Okay. 

04:45 Julie Falls: All right. Let's move on. Dr. Vicki, why should you use a moisturizer early in life?

04:52 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: How early in life are you wondering about? 

04:55 Trina Renea: How early should they?

04:56 Julie Falls: Why don't you tell us how early we should be starting? How's that? 

05:00 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Gosh, it's such a loaded question. But let's say I see somebody in the office with acne, and I'm going to put them on drying acne medication. Say they're 12 or 13 or 14, I'll start them on a moisturizer. 

If somebody comes in for a mole check with their mom and they're eight, do I put them on a moisturizer? No. 

But the earlier you start, it's true. You need to keep that skin barrier up. And people with dry skin with either eczema or xerosis or just genetically dry skin, they're going to know and they're going to start using moisturizer early on. 

But there isn't like an actual date, age where you have to start. It's really skin-based. But kids with eczema, I'll tell them to start using moisturizer. If they're eight, nine, ten years old, I'll describe…

05:47 Julie Falls: And can somebody use a body moisturizer on their face? 

05:54 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Not necessarily. It depends on the formula, and we'll talk about ingredients in a little bit. We'll go deeper with Rebecca. But generally speaking, body lotions are not meant for your face.

06:04 Rebecca Gadberry: Exactly, Dr. V, because when we formulate a body lotion, we're putting different ingredients in there than we are for the face. Certain ingredients are going to work better on the face than work on the skin. A body lotion is usually lighter weight. Not always, but lighter weight and maybe a little bit more hydrating.

06:29 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: More oily.

06:30 Rebecca Gadberry: More oily than what your face cream might be. And also, remember that your face is a different skin type all together than your body is. You may have dry skin on your body and a very oily skin face. So the two don't go together. 

Now, there are some products that are marketed for face and body, and those specifically are formulated for face and body, but they're not for everybody. 

07:00 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Are those the creams in the section for men? Because men are generally lazier than women. 

07:03 Rebecca Gadberry: They can be. And in those instances, sometimes the brands have taken a clue from their men to offer it to women. But these are usually products that are offered to people who don't have a lot of time to spend on their skin.

07:19 Trina Renea: Side note. 

07:20 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes. 

07:21 Rebecca Gadberry: What do you think? 

07:22 Trina Renea: I was at my friend's house, who's a male, and I used his bathroom. He had male, it was like black and brown wipes, the bottom wipes. And it said “Man” on it. It was like in a brown and black container. I was like, “Are you kidding me?”

People really buy marketing like that, the men. They buy things that they think it's specifically for them.

07:53 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Brilliant. I think that is funny. It's not necessary, but men want dark packaging for whatever reason. 

08:01 Trina Renea: It has to be for men. 

08:02 Julie Falls: Masculine packaging. 

08:04 Trina Renea: Like the lotions that say “For men”. 

08:05 Rebecca Gadberry: It's market differentiation. 

08:07 Julie Falls: Well, speaking of that with all the marketing and stuff, do people need more than one moisturizer or can they wear the same one morning and evening?

08:16 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Trina.

08:18 Julie Falls: You put your hand out so nicely. Well behaved. I mean, if you saw my bathroom, this question would be hilarious because there's moisturizers for every hour of the day.

08:30 Trina Renea: I mean, this is so independent to the person. Every person, it depends on how they want to use their skincare. Some people want a really minimal skincare routine and some people like to have different things. 

So if somebody loves to use a night cream that's a thicker night cream, they're not going to want to use that during the day. So I'll recommend they use a lighter cream during the day with a sunscreen in it. So maybe they'll have their morning moisturizer will be with sunscreen and then they'll have a night cream. 

Or if they have really super dry skin, they might use their night cream morning, in the day, and then put a sunscreen over the top of it. Or if they're oily, they're going to use a very light cream during the night and morning and then use a separate sunscreen. 

So it's so separate. It just depends on the person's skin. 

09:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But Julie has one for 9:00 AM, noon, 4:00 PM, after workout. 

09:30 Rebecca Gadberry: After workout?

09:31 Julie Falls: No, I just have— I switch on and off and I like to mix things. 

09:37 Trina Renea: It's a mood thing for her. 

09:38 Julie Falls: Yes. 

09:38 Trina Renea: Some people have a mood thing. They need to be like, how do I feel right now?

09:42 Julie Falls: No, it's my skin's mood. 

09:44 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I'm into that. 

09:45 Julie Falls: It's definitely the skin's mood. 

09:47 Trina Renea: Yeah, the skin makes the mood.

09:47 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: From the dermatologist perspective, too, there are different seasons. 

09:50 Julie Falls: I just was going to say that. Thank you, Dr. Vicki. 

09:52 Trina Renea: And then there's the season. 

09:53 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: You're welcome. 

09:53 Julie Falls: Periods where you're more dry. Yeah. 

09:57 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, we see— I mean, people are coming in with eczema, with really dry skin, with perioral dermatitis, with body itching. And when we rule out all the things that it could be and we just deem them to maybe just have dry skin, but it's weather-related, because remember, LA is, okay, it's not a desert. We talked about that. But it's desert-like. 

10:16 Julie Falls: It's dry. 

10:17 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Very dry right now. Beautiful winds. Very, very drying. My lips are so, so, so dry. 

10:21 Trina Renea: And also we use our heater and that causes your skin to be even drier. 

10:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Right. So those are the times of the year where people who might not really need a moisturizer are feeling like they really want to do a moisturizer. 

So, I agree with you, Trina. I think that some mornings I need really, really thick. I use my night moisturizer in the morning. Other mornings, I wouldn't dare. I’d feel so greasy and oily. It's patient dependent. But yeah, more moisturizers around this time of the year in general.

10:46 Rebecca Gadberry: So you've got to call it like you see it or feel it. 

10:48 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Call it like you feel it. 

10:50 Rebecca Gadberry: Call it like you feel it. 

10:51 Trina Renea: Mood creams. 

10:52 Rebecca Gadberry: And I'm going to differ from everybody, because there's something called the circadian rhythm of the skin. In the morning, the skin behaves a certain way and makes certain products. And in the evening, it makes other products and behaves a different way. 

11:08 Trina Renea: What do you mean it makes products? 

11:09 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, for instance, the hydrators that are part of the skin, it starts to make early in the morning, whereas ceramides are made more in the evening. 

11:18 Trina Renea: Are you talking about our skin makes these?

11:20 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes, your body. 

11:20 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, our skin, our cells do.

11:22 Julie Falls: Your skin makes different… Wow! 

11:24 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, which is why ceramides are so miraculous, because they're actually made by the cells. There's nine different ones that are made throughout the year and throughout the time of day, and getting to know which ceramides are made when is the trick of biomedical research. 

But in skin care, when we're using ceramides, if you're using a day and a night cream, hopefully it's been formulated to specifically offer yourselves what they need in the morning and what they need at night to produce those biological tissues that make up your skin. I'm talking collagen and elastin and the collagens that connect your epidermis and your dermis, those are made at night. 

During the day, well, we want to protect from the environment more than just sun. We want to protect from smog and other things. 

12:22 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Irritants and allergens.

12:24 Julie Falls: So if we get up in the morning and wash our face, are we wiping all that off, all those natural-made…

12:29 Rebecca Gadberry: No, we're not because they're in your skin. They're not on the surface. But when you get up in the morning, you should be washing your face because you've drooled on it.

12:39 Trina Renea: I disagree. 

12:42 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, we talked about that in the cleanser episode. 

12:47 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I hope our listeners appreciate Rebecca's expertise, because that's something I think that a lot of them haven't heard before. 

12:53 Rebecca Gadberry: No, and it's not commonly known. This is research that was done right before I retired in the early 2010s. Now that I've entered back into the industry from retirement, I'm starting to work with companies that are focusing on that. So we're going to be seeing a lot more product around the circadian rhythm.

And then lastly, sunscreen. 

13:17 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I love that.

13:20 Rebecca Gadberry: Now, we've talked about this before. We talked about it last year in the second season. Sunscreen should not be in your moisturizer. I firmly believe that because you need to put on the length of the first two fingers of your hand, about an eighth of an inch of sunscreen along the, from the base knuckle to the fingertip of the first two fingers, your ring finger and your index finger. That is applied from the neck to the top of the head, the forehead, your ears and behind on the back of your neck. That's enough to cover. 

13:57 Trina Renea: What about your chest? 

13:59 Rebecca Gadberry: And your chest. Your chest is a separate amount, actually. You should be putting on about one fingerful from that. 

So, most people don't put on that much moisturizer. And your tip at the beginning was to save moisturizer. 

14:13 Trina Renea: Right. Sunscreen is a different…

14:15 Rebecca Gadberry: Sunscreen’s baby. And it's not a cosmetic, it's a drug, so it has to be tested for efficacy. That means that you have to put on the amount that was used in the test. That's the amount that's used in the test. 

So whether we like it or not, it's an extra step we need to take if we want to protect our skin. You could be wasting the sunscreen at night if you're using your product 24 hours. 

14:43 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And I'm sure our listeners also want to know if it's enough sunscreen in their foundation. The same thing goes. You're not putting on enough foundation to warrant that SPF 15. And plus, SPF 15 in my eyes as a dermatologist isn't enough. You need to do between SPF 30 and 60.

14:59 Trina Renea: Above 30.

15:01 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And nobody's caking on their foundation, which you have enough SPF.

15:04 Rebecca Gadberry: Plan to put that much on. 

15:05 Trina Renea: You also have to reapply. That's the rule now, right? 

15:10 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes, ma 'am.

15:11 Trina Renea: Yeah. So you're not going to reapply your foundation. 

15:13 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I don't think you will. 

15:16 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, reapplying for a chemical sunscreen, like Octyl methoxy… I'm sorry, octinoxate. I gave you the old word. 

15:23 Trina Renea: As benzone? 

15:25 Rebecca Gadberry: And avobenzone. Those are your, what they call organic sunscreens. Those need to be re-applied. Whereas your mineral sunscreens, your zinc oxide and titanium dioxide, the way that a sunscreen works when it's a chemical sunscreen is it absorbs UV light, it chemically lowers it into heat and releases it onto the skin. That can only happen for a certain length of time and then it doesn't work anymore. That's the length of time that you need to reapply, whether you’re an SPF 15, 30 or 50. 

Whereas for a mineral sunscreen like titanium dioxide or zinc oxide, they're more of a I don't want to say block because sunblock is not a term that is recognized by the FDA and it doesn’t work that way. But titanium dioxide and zinc oxide act as a shield. They're there whether you— they don't lower in their effectiveness. So you don't need to reapply those.

16:25 Trina Renea: Really? Do they have to have that FDA approval? I know I'm getting lots of this.

16:29 Rebecca Gadberry: Absolutely. 

16:29 Julie Falls: As a moisturizer, this is not a sunscreen episode, even though it's fascinating, but can we table that for our sunscreen episode?

16:38 Trina Renea: Yes ma'am.

16:36 Julie Falls: A part three or how many more we do.

16:38 Rebecca Gadberry: Actually, we talked about it in an earlier episode. 

16:40 Julie Falls: We did, but we'll do it again because it never gets old. 

16:43 Rebecca Gadberry: You can never talk about it too much.

16:45 Julie Falls: We just don’t get enough.

16:46 Trina Renea: You can also go back and listen to that episode, if you wish. 

16:47 Julie Falls: That’s right. 

16:48 Rebecca Gadberry: And also the chemicals sink in, whereas the minerals don’t. 

16:54 Julie Falls: Okay. Well, then let's also talk about the fact that, so we did talk about a moisturizer with an SPF in it. Do we need to go into that a little bit more?

17:05 Rebecca Gadberry: The only thing I'd like to say is on lipsticks, when you have an SPF on a lipstick, you'd have to apply the whole tube to use the amount that was used in the test.

17:16 Julie Falls: So Rebecca, let me ask you this. I know we've talked about this before, and Vicki and Trina. I know a lot of women who use a tinted moisturizer as their sunscreen. I'm kind of crazy. I will use a regular sunscreen and then sometimes put the tinted SPF on top of that. Am I doing too much? Or is that correct?

17:43 Trina Renea: It's not going to— oh, go ahead. 

17:44 Trina Renea: No, I think that's correct because a tinted moisturizer with, I assume, has SPF in it, is not enough SPF. So if you want to put the sunscreen underneath, ideally, I'm a big mineral sunscreen fan. If you're going to put a mineral sunscreen on underneath, usually mineral sunscreens are actually already tinted. 

18:02 Julie Falls: I was just going to say. Is that okay? 

18:04 Trina Renea: Great. 30, 40, 50, 60 SPF, if you really want a tinted moisturizer on top of that. I don't know why you would, but that would be perfectly fine. But a tinted moisturizer alone with SPF of 15 is not enough SPF. It's not enough moisturizer either. 

18:19 Rebecca Gadberry: Okay. What about I use a particular company that I love. I guess I can't mention it. 

18:27 Trina Renea: But you can also, if people want to know what you love, Julie, they're welcome to email us at info@faciallyconscious.com and say, “What does Julie love?” And I will tell you. 

18:38 Julie Falls: We'll put all our favorites there. No, this particular product was developed by a dermatologist, as yourself. It is an SPF, I think it's 30, and it goes on like a foundation and it's got a color in it. But I still use a non-tinted one under it. 

18:57 Rebecca Gadberry: As long as you put on the right amount, you're going to get the SPF. 

19:02 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes. 

19:02 Rebecca Gadberry: But if you dot it on like a tinted foundation or moisturizer, you're not going to get the protection. 

19:06 Julie Falls: That’s a good point. You got to slather, like you would put an SPF…

19:11 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And Rebecca was explaining the two-finger length amount of product. You should smear on the product on two of your longest fingers. That's the amount you should put over your whole face. Are you doing that? 

19:19 Julie Falls: Used to be the shot glass. 

19:21 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Or a shot glass. 

19:21 Trina Renea: Face, neck, back of neck and ears.

19:24 Rebecca Gadberry: Shot glass is from head to toe. 

19:25 Julie Falls: I was going to say that's a lot for your face. Okay. This is such good information. Okay. 

And does it matter if you're using a cream or a lotion moisturizer on your face? 

19:39 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Well, a lotion is just more water than cream. 

19:42 Trina Renea: It's a lighter moisture cream, lighter than a cream.

19:44 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: So, again, if you're really oily and if you're very sebaceous or acne prone or it's the summer, a little lotion is fine. If it's the winter and you're dry and you open your mouth and you can feel your skin crack, then you need a cream, which has more of the, whether it's glycerin or ceramides or squalene or…

20:04 Rebecca Gadberry: Hyaluronic acid. 

20:04 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Thank you, hyaluronic acid, other lipids, other fatty acids, there'll be more of that in a cream than in a lotion. 

20:12 Julie Falls: I see. 

20:12 Trina Renea: Hi. 

20:13 Julie Falls: Hi, Trina. 

20:15 Trina Renea: A question that I always get... 

20:17 Julie Falls: The chair recognizes you.

20:20 Trina Renea: A question that I always get from my clients is, can they use their moisturizer for their eyes and their neck? Or do they have to have a separate eye cream, separate neck cream, and separate face cream? I think we all have our difference and opinions on that one. Again, I feel like I'm just going to say, it totally depends on what other products you're using. It depends on what serums you're using. It depends on so many different things. 

So If you're using serums for your eyes, you don't need an eye cream as well. Your moisturizer can go on your eyes and then you can put your eye serum if you have one. Or if you're using a really good, rich moisturizer, it can also be used on your neck, I feel. 

So it depends on your other products whether you need a separate eye, neck, and face. 

21:14 Rebecca Gadberry: And I don't like thick creams on my neck because I have a double chin. And when I look down, the skin sticks to itself. So it's purely a personal, physical thing. 

The neck creams that I develop, none of them will stick. I do that on purpose. 

21:36 Julie Falls: Rebecca, I've noticed that the few neck creams that I've purchased, I react to them. 

21:45 Rebecca Gadberry: It's easy to.

21:45 Julie Falls: I'm very reactive to them. 

21:46 Rebecca Gadberry: It can be the fragrance. 

21:48 Julie Falls: If I use just a tiny little bit of whatever I'm putting on my face and go down to my neck, my décolleté and just, you know, the whole thing. But the specialized neck creams, I've noticed, I react. 

21:48 Rebecca Gadberry: Check for fragrance. Check for phenoxyethanol. Check for peptides. Sometimes peptides are fine on the face, but the neck reacts to them. Have you noticed that, Dr. V? 

22:14 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, the neck doesn't have as many sebaceous glands, so it's just not as protected and gets irritated very, very easily. 

22:18 Julie Falls: It gets mad.

22:19 Trina Renea: Very. Even Taylor.

22:19 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Even if it's formulated for neck, sometimes it's not tolerable. But I like to comment on the do you need an eye cream versus just can you use your face cream on your eye? I do love it when a patient asks for an eye cream, because it means that they're serious about their skin care. 

But can you use your face cream and double up and put a little extra on your eye? 100% yes. 

22:42 Rebecca Gadberry: With the exception. If it has fragrance or if it has an organic sunscreen in it, then you shouldn't put it around your eyes. 

22:47 Julie Falls: Yeah, that's another really sensitive area around the eyes. 

22:52 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Right. So sunscreen, be a little careful. I'm just talking about kind of pure moisturizers. But what I feel that eyes can typically handle is thicker than the rest of the face. So I feel like, in general, eye creams are, in general, a little bit thicker than face cream. If you want extra moisture on your eyes, get an eye cream. If you're cool with just your face cream and it feels good around your eyes and it's enough, that's fine too. 

23:14 Rebecca Gadberry: Also, look for products that have ingredients that help to get rid of the bags, to empty the bags first thing in the morning. They should be cooler ingredients, maybe gels. Look for peptides and other age-fighting ingredients that are specifically for the eye area. There are some extremely good eye creams out there now. 

So do you think that putting a heavy eye cream around the eye is going to make the eye puff up or drag it down? I'm not asking for myself. I'm asking for Mary, the consumer who's heard the myth. 

Sorry, did I give you a lead there? 

23:53 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Not at all. No, I feel like the eyelid skin is, yes, it's very thin. It's the thinnest skin on your body. We know that for sure. Okay, yes. If you're feeling like it's pulling your eye down, don't use it. But I've never experienced that. I mean, people put Vaseline around their eyes and I feel like that's a very inexpensive, wonderful, little occlusive. 

I never really thought about that, honestly, Rebecca.

24:17 Trina Renea: Is that a problem?

24:18 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, it's a myth that's been…

24:20 Julie Falls: Well, it depends about how you're putting it on. You really should use your ring finger and tap very gently around it instead of wiping hard. You don’t want to pull the area.

24:28 Trina Renea: Are you talking about making your skin puffy?

24:31 Rebecca Gadberry: Making it puffy or making it…

24:33 Trina Renea: Drag down?

24:34 Rebecca Gadberry: Drag down like it's too heavy. 

24:37 Trina Renea: If it's too heavy, then the cream is too heavy. And if you have puffiness in the morning, I tell people, if you just use your pinky or your ring finger very lightly and you do a light lymphatic drainage to the heartbeat, and you push like heartbeat scoop.

24:54 Rebecca Gadberry: You're doing it, but they can't see you do it. 

24:55 Trina Renea: I know. I'm trying to say like…

24:57 Rebecca Gadberry: Okay, so she's starting at the inside corner of her eye nearest the nose underneath where the bag would be. 

25:05 Trina Renea: Yes. And you're very lightly not dragging your finger, doing a heartbeat motion across, all the way to the end of your eye out to your temple. 

25:15 Rebecca Gadberry: Along the top of the cheek bone. 

25:16 Trina Renea: Yes. And if you do that a few times in the morning, that brings the puffiness out of your eye because that lymph pocket that's getting caught right there, you can just kind of scoop it out. And then if you're still really puffy, you can use a cold spoon or they have those really cool gel you can keep in the refrigerator, those really cool…

25:37 Rebecca Gadberry: Oh, the patches?

25:39 Trina Renea: Little, yeah, gel patches or something to help bring down the puff. And you can use a good eye cream, if you want, but you can also use your vitamin C serums, your antioxidants right up under there. You can use your moisturizer. I mean, if you really have issues with your eyes, of course, go for an eye cream that specifically deals with dark circles and puffiness and stuff that have vitamin K and other.

26:03 Rebecca Gadberry: One of the things that I used to use that I still swear by is a tea bag of either green tea or black tea that's been chilled. It's gone through the steeping process and then it's been chilled because the epigallocatechin gallate that's in them, that's the soothing part of the green tea and the black tea that goes into the skin and helps to stimulate the lymph.

26:29 Trina Renea: Yeah, that's good too. Then you can just hold that on there if you have— because some people get real puffy in the morning.

Also, sleep with your head up a little bit. Don't lay flat.

Okay, we went off topic. Back to moisturizers.

26:42 Julie Falls: Dr. Vicki, I would imagine, because I hear this all the time, people come in and say, “Oh, that will make me break out,” or, “This lotion, this cream, this is making me break out,” or, “I can't use these ingredients in my moisturizer, that will make me break out.” Are there things that people have to be aware of that could cause them to break out?

27:06 Trina Renea: Oh, for sure.

27:08 Julie Falls: They should stay away from in their moisturizer? How do they know? 

27:12 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I would never say to somebody if they really, truly thought that the cream was breaking them out, unless I really didn't think they had any acne at all and I don't see anything. I would say, “Okay, if you think that it's breaking you out.” I'm not in your bathroom every day. I'm not at your house every day. I see them for a moment, a little snippet in their life. If it's breaking them out, avoid it. Are there ingredients that clog and occlude, 100%? Yes. 

But I think if it really does say non-comedogenic on the bottle, which they all do say now, it really shouldn't clog your pores.

27:46 Julie Falls: What does that mean non-comedogenic? 

27:47 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Not clogging. It will not create comedones. 

27:51 Rebecca Gadberry: And it needs to be done by a test to prove that it isn't. And I think because it's a marketing term, it's not highly regulated. That companies are throwing it on there without knowing for sure whether it's non-comedogenic. You actually have to do a test to determine that.

28:07 Trina Renea: But how do you know if the company has done the test?

28:11 Rebecca Gadberry: Contact the company. 

28:13 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And remember, we do have that list of comedogenic…

28:16 Rebecca Gadberry: It's on the blog. 

28:18 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Products on the blog, ingredients on the blog. But I do think it's hard because sometimes people might just have a monthly…

28:25 Julie Falls: Trial and error.

28:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: You know, break out with a period and they blame the product. They always want to blame the product or food.

28:30 Trina Renea: They always do that, yeah.

28:31 Rebecca Gadberry: Or they might put it on after they've sweated during a workout without taking a shower or washing their face. I cringe at that.

28:38 Trina Renea: There's so many things that can…

28:40 Rebecca Gadberry: That can cause it.

28:40 Trina Renea: Yeah. I always tell people when they…

28:42 Julie Falls: Hot yoga.

28:44 Trina Renea: Whenever people throw out, like, “I think this product is causing me to break out.” I'm like, “It's probably not the product.”

28:49 Julie Falls: You must hear it all the time. 

28:50 Trina Renea: Because this product doesn't make you break out, but, if you want, don't throw it out. Just hold onto it. When the breakout is finished and you're all cleared up, try again. 

29:00 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes, I agree with that. 

29:01 Trina Renea: Because it could have been something that you ate. It could have been a hormonal breakout. It could have been so many other things. It could have been anything. 

29:09 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Or don't throw it out. Use it on your body. Use it on your hands. Use it on your arms. Use it on your chest. Because, as we said, those are different. The components of that skin is much different than your face and you're not going to break out on your hands. 

29:20 Rebecca Gadberry: You're not going to break out on your arms. 

29:22 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Or your arms. 

29:23 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, your legs.

29:26 Julie Falls: Okay. We talked about SPF. We talked about tinted. What about moisturizing soap? 

29:34 Rebecca Gadberry: That's a personal bug of mine. 

29:35 Julie Falls: Is that a big one for you, Rebecca? 

29:38 Rebecca Gadberry: That's a big one of mine. 

29:39 Trina Renea: So, moisturizing soap. 

29:40 Rebecca Gadberry: Moisturizing soap, like…

29:45 Trina Renea: Dove? 

29:45 Rebecca Gadberry: Super fatted, yes. Since we weren't supposed to mention. 

29:47 Trina Renea: But you don't use that on your face as a moisturizer. 

29:50 Rebecca Gadberry: Oh, there are. 

29:51 Julie Falls: You see people all the time who will.

29:52 Trina Renea: What?

29:54 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: As soap in their face as a moisturizer? I have never seen anybody use soap as a moisturizer. 

29:58 Rebecca Gadberry: No, but that’s moisturizing soap. 

29:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: They'll use soap— yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they have dry skin, they want a soap that's more moisturizing.

30:03 Julie Falls: And they think that this will moisturize their face. So maybe they think, “I don't need a moisturizer. I'm using a moisturizing soap.”

30:10 Rebecca Gadberry: That's right. And the reason, I'm the one who put that on the list. And the reason why it's a bugaboo for me is because those are what we call super-fatted soaps. 

So you have your cleaning part of the soap bar or the lotion or fluid and then you have your moisturizing part. And the two don't go together. So when you put it on the skin, you get a slight cleansing, not as much as you need it, most likely, and then there's a layer of fat that's left on the skin that doesn't wash off. 

And when that doesn't wash off, what you put on after that can keep out any performance ingredients that you're hoping are going to affect your skin. So we're talking peptides and vitamins and also the ceramides can be caught up in that super-fatted layer rather than penetrating into the skin. Those are big issues. 

31:06 Trina Renea: All I can think of is like grease, like putting grease on your skin. 

31:10 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah. So what I recommend is to take, if you're using a soap bar that says moisturizing, take it and put it in like a basin of water, swish it around, and then take a drinking glass, dip it in, and pull it out. If there's a film left on it, don't use it. If there isn't, if it comes out cleanly, then it's okay. 

31:34 Julie Falls: It sounds like a commercial for some of those soaps. 

31:35 Rebecca Gadberry: It was a commercial that I did back in the early ‘90s. 

31:38 Trina Renea: I might have to go buy a bar of soap and play that game with my daughter. That would be fun.

31:43 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes.

31:45 Trina Renea: All right. Well, we need to wrap it up, ladies. We have to get on with the day.

31:51 Rebecca Gadberry: As you do at home.

31:52 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I want to leave with one really important idea about just moisturizers in general. I'm talking more like full body than face, but I'm sure everybody has heard about leaky gut, right?

32:03 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes.

32:04 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: There's now this saying about leaky skin. It's basically just another way to say that you have transepidermal water loss. So when you are dry, your skin is “leaky”, which lets allergens in and irritants in, and then your immune system is busy fighting off all those irritants and allergens that are coming in through your “leaky skin”. It sort of lends towards like an overall poor health. 

You don't want your skin to be leaky. You want your skin to be hydrated. 

32:32 Trina Renea: When you say it's leaky, I feel like it feels watery. Is that not how…?

32:36 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: No, the opposite. The water leaks out, in a sense. It doesn't really leak out, but that's just, it's a nice little…

32:43 Rebecca Gadberry: It evaporates out. 

32:45 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, it evaporates out. You want that lipid barrier. So you asked me at the very beginning, how early should somebody moisturize? Honestly, we moisturize our baby's skin. We moisturize babies with eczema. 

Do we put it on their face? No, because face has more oils in general. But, yeah, if you want to start moisturizing at day one of your life, it's going to give you better overall health in general. 

33:06 Julie Falls: I saw a story where they were giving babies facials, like home facials. Mommy is doing it to their baby. 

33:12 Rebecca Gadberry: Growing them up young there. 

33:15 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: It's the massage.

33:15 Julie Falls: But it's all for relaxation. The babies were sleeping better. 

33:19 Rebecca Gadberry: Which is the oxytocin. 

33:20 Julie Falls: But they were putting stuff on their face. It's so sweet. 

33:23 Rebecca Gadberry: It's the oxytocin that's released through touch. 

33:26 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That is literally the cutest. I've seen that on Instagram. 

33:28 Julie Falls: So, Dr. Vicki, obviously, another— hi, Trina. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Another way we can help with our parched body skin is by drinking more water and hydrating our…

33:39 Rebecca Gadberry: No.

33:40 Julie Falls: No? Nothing to do with it.

33:41 Rebecca Gadberry: Water has nothing to do with hydration in the skin. 

33:43 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: If you were to drink water and it would go to your skin, you'd look like Madonna at the Grammys. You'd be puffy. And like when you drink a glass of water, do you get puffy? No. 

It would be nice if that water would go to the skin, and it doesn't really. So it's all about keeping the barrier up with moisturizers. 

34:03 Trina Renea: Okay. So I have a question. 

34:03 Julie Falls: That's going to be a whole other segment. 

34:06 Rebecca Gadberry: Actually, that's been a segment. 

34:07 Trina Renea: We did that.

34:08 Rebecca Gadberry: It was our hydration segment. 

34:08 Julie Falls: That’s right. Because people do think, keep drinking water for your skin. Trina, do you tell your clients, keep drinking water to hydrate for skin? No?

34:14 Trina Renea: No. But if they feel dehydrated, they should drink water, so I do tell them that. 

34:21 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes. If their pee is a darker color, drink water. 

34:25 Trina Renea: Right. Yes, that's a good point. 

34:26 Julie Falls: And also too much salt.

34:27 Trina Renea: Your pee should be a very light yellow. My mother, since I was a little girl, every time we took a shower, we would get out and we had to put our lotion on right away after the shower. I've taught my daughter that as well. 

And like we said in our hydrating episode, if you get out of the shower and you towel off while your body is still moist, put your lotion on and it'll keep that water in there. So for that leaky skinned people, I feel like…

34:53 Rebecca Gadberry: That's how you get water in the skin, not drinking water. 

34:55 Julie Falls: We should do that with the Neutrogena oil. Like get out— sorry. But get out, your body is wet, and then you put the oil.

35:00 Rebecca Gadberry: Love that. Yeah.

35:01 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And the sesame smell. 

35:01 Rebecca Gadberry: Absolutely. 

35:02 Julie Falls: My mom used to do that in her bathtub.

35:02 Rebecca Gadberry: It smelled wonderful. Oh, my goodness. My husband still uses that. He loves it. 

So what I like to suggest is, because I was the 13th licensed esthetician in California. And so when I was doing esthetics, I would recommend that, for children, you get them used to having their routine lined up on the counter. So they brush their teeth, they put on their moisturizer, they put on their sunscreen or vice versa. 

35:29 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I love it. So good. 

35:31 Trina Renea: That’s what my daughter does.

35:33 Rebecca Gadberry: Nobody has to question it. 

35:35 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Love it.

35:34 Julie Falls: I do it too for myself. 

35:38 Rebecca Gadberry: We do it. We all do it. 

35:38 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Mine are all lined up. 

35:40 Trina Renea: All right, ladies. Well, I think that this wraps up our moisturizing episode.

35:44 Julie Falls: It might cover it all.

35:46 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And don't forget, if they…

35:46 Rebecca Gadberry: I need to go cover it all. 

35:47 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: If they have, if you all have specific questions, please email us at…

35:52 Trina Renea: Info@faciallyconscious.com. And if you want to know our recommendations, you can ask us there as well. Any questions you have and we'll make sure to answer it for you.

36:01 Rebecca Gadberry: And for the list of comedogenic ingredients, check out our blog at faciallyconscious.com/blog or just go to the home page and there's a little note at the top that says Blogs.

36:15 Trina Renea: Great. Well, everybody, have a wonderful day. And don't forget to moisturize tonight. 

36:20 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes. May you all be comfortable.

36:23 Trina Renea: And happy. 

36:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Goodbye. Thank you. 

36:26 Trina Renea: Goodbye. 

[Outro] This podcast is so needed in the world right now. There's so much information out there that it's hard to know who to believe and if it's right for you. We are very excited to be your guides and bring you Facially Conscious. You can find info we talked about today in our show notes and on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook. 

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