FAN FAVORITE FLASHBACK DEEP DIVE: 5 Ingredient Misconceptions + 1 Outright Lie! from March 14, 2023

[Intro] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Facially Conscious with myself, Trina Renea, esthetician, Dr. Vicki Rapaport, dermatologist, Rebecca Gadberry, the cosmetic ingredient guru, and our fabulous, overly-educated consumer, Julie Falls. We are gathered here together with you to talk about this crazy world of esthetics. It's confusing out there in this big wide world. 

That's why we are here to help explain it to you all, subject by subject. We will be your go-to girls, and from our perspective without giving medical advice, we will keep things facially conscious.

Let's get started. 

01:01 Rebecca Gadberry: Welcome to the Facially Conscious podcast where you get the skinny on all things skin. My name is Rebecca Gadberry and I am the legendary skincare pioneer, or at least that’s what I'm told. I'm here with Dr. Vicki Rapaport…

01:18 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Good morning.

01:17 Rebecca Gadberry: Who is our board-certified Beverly Hills dermatologist, who's fabulous. And also Trina Renea, who is a, well, she's an esthetician not only to the stars, but she also trains estheticians in Southern California and mentors them on how to be better at what they do. 

I want to welcome everybody here. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to listen to us. Today, we're going to be talking about five ingredient misconceptions and one outright lie that's perpetrated in this industry.

01:54 Trina Renea: Oh, my God, I really want to hear this. 

01:55 Rebecca Gadberry: So stay tuned. But before we begin, we have a tip to share with you that I don't think a lot of people are aware of. That is that blue light that is cast off by your devices, either your phone, your television, your computer monitor, your tablet, that can do as much damage to your skin as UV light that comes from the sun. Yet a lot of sunscreens don't protect in this area. 

So it's wise to use a sunscreen if you're sitting in front of a monitor, at least 18 inches close to it or even up to three feet away. 

02:35 Trina Renea: Don't they have blue light screens now that you can buy a film to put on your devices to protect you from that? 

02:43 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, if you don't want to put the film on there, what do you look for? And remember, that this blue light is also emitted by the sun and it can get through windows. So just even if you're not in front of a device, it's wise to protect your skin from blue light, which is above on the light spectrum, it's above UV light. It's still damaging. It's in between UV light and infrared light. It's literally blue light, but our eyes are used to it so we don't see it as blue light. We see it as part of normal light. 

What do you do to protect yourself? Well, there are sunscreens out there with titanium dioxide and zinc oxide. Those mineral sunscreens help to protect from blue light as well. We also have special ingredients that have melanin, that are taken from melanin, not from animals but from broccoli and cauliflower. They're grown. The genes are grown for the melanin in broccoli and cauliflower. And then they're harvested and they're put into products. They're going to be a little bit browner, like you would expect from melanin, but look for that or look for any product that makes a claim of protecting from artificial or blue light.

04:00 Trina Renea: Which they do have glasses, because I know the kids wear them in school now with their computers. 

04:04 Rebecca Gadberry: Exactly. Because the blue light that can affect your eyes can also lead to macular degeneration and other problems with eyesight later in life. 

04:15 Trina Renea: I would say that the computer companies should make their screens with a blue light protection on their screens automatically. 

04:21 Rebecca Gadberry: I think we should call somebody and let them know. 

04:23 Trina Renea: I'm mad, and I'm going to do something about it.

04:27 Rebecca Gadberry: Oh, my goodness. So we're going to dive right into talking about the misconceptions. 

The first misconception is that hyaluronic acid dehydrates your skin. That's really big right now.

04:42 Trina Renea: So frustrating.

04:43 Rebecca Gadberry: It is, because it's not the way— it's not the presence of the hyaluronic acid that's dehydrating your skin, it's the formula isn't made properly to make sure that your skin is hydrated from the hyaluronic acid.

04:58 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That must infuriate you being the chemist that you are, that it's an ingredient that everybody's looking for but, like, some of these formulas are doing detriment instead of, you know, just seeing that word, “Oh, it's going to be good.” No, it's all about the formula. 

05:12 Rebecca Gadberry: It's about the formula and, at this point, and I know you're going to agree with this, there's dermatologists out there who are pretending to be cosmetic chemists. They're passing judgment on ingredients. “You should use this. You shouldn't use that. This is dangerous. This isn't.” They don't know what they're talk about. It's like me trying to talk about skin cancer. You know that. I know formulations.

05:35 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: When they say board-certified dermatologist, it's supposed to be the end all, be all that they know everything. And you’re right. We're not taught ingredients. 

05:41 Rebecca Gadberry: No.

05:43 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Unless you seek it out. You’re interested and later you look at skin care this and that, but you’re right. I feel like Rebecca as the chemist, has a lot more in-depth knowledge about this than just a regular practicing dermatologist. 

05:59 Trina Renea: Well, I feel like a dermatologist who has gone— you know, to create their own product line, then gets taught about ingredients from their rep, who are making…

06:09 Rebecca Gadberry: Their chemists.

06:09 Trina Renea: Their chemists, yes. And so some dermatologists do go out and try to learn about the products. Some of them just sell the products to have them in their office. And some depend on their staff to tell them why they should be using the products.

06:26 Rebecca Gadberry: And a lot of times, a dermatologist may say they know something to make them stand out among all the other dermatologists or to get a following online. I very rarely see a dermatologist at the Society of Cosmetic Chemists, which is the group that all the cosmetic chemists that are cosmetic chemists that are living that way, we all belong to this society. It's an international society in the United States. It's just a society of cosmetic chemists. 

And we also welcome estheticians. I know, Trina, you belong to it too, don't you? 

07:00 Trina Renea: Uh-hmm. I go to the ones that interest me. When they talk about hair care ingredients, I don't go. 

07:06 Rebecca Gadberry: No, I don't go to hair— well, I do, but…

07:08 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I think those companies like dermatologists around. Dermatologists will consult the J&Js or the Neutrogenas and then the chemists, of course, consult us in terms of what is the better formulation. 

07:20 Rebecca Gadberry: Right, and we work together. 

07:21 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: It's a marriage.

07:22 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, it absolutely is. As a cosmetic chemist, if I just put together a formula and I don't know how it's going to behave in the skin, I'm doing the disservice to everybody who uses it. So of course, I call Trina or someone like Trina who is a clinician who’s working on the skin. I would call you who is a doctor working on the skin, so that I can find out what things you’re seeing that would be coming from the formula that I'm working on that could be a problem or could be of great benefit, something even I don't know about in putting the formula together.

So I'm going to get back to hyaluronic acid, it's not, and I'm going to say this over and over again, I cannot reiterate this enough. It's not the presence of an ingredient that makes the product effective or not effective or good or bad. It's the way that ingredient is used. 

The only way to really find out is to use the product. If you buy a product, you should have a money-back guarantee, if you're worried about how it's going to affect you, so you don't waste your money. 

Sampling, as we've talked about in other episodes, like Trina said— what do you say about sampling? 

08:36 Trina Renea: It doesn't work. 

08:37 Rebecca Gadberry: Why not? 

08:38 Trina Renea: Because you can't see if a product's working on your skin in three days. 

08:42 Rebecca Gadberry: That's right. And you can't tell if hyaluronic acid is going to do anything for you in three days. 

Now, I will say, if you’re reading ingredient labels, and a lot of people think that the end all and be all is being able to read an ingredient label, but you’ve got to be able to look at what the ingredients represent, not just whether that ingredient is irritating or that ingredient is fabulous of whatever. You have to look at the entire formula and how it works.

So with hyaluronic acid, I suggest looking for it at the lower half of the label, ingredient label, not in the upper half, because where we hit 1% in the formula is about halfway down the label. And then you can list in whatever order you want to, according to FDA guidelines, or actually Fair Packaging and Labeling Act guidelines, which is governed by an act of Congress. We talked about that with Dr. Mindy. 

So I do recommend if you want to use hyaluronic acid, don't feel that it's not going to do anything.

09:48 Trina Renea: Also, let me just explain to people who don't know what hyaluronic acid is. It's an ingredient that's supposed to hold a thousand times its weight in water. It's supposed to help hydrate the skin with water and pull your water from your products and your ingredients deeper into the skin. 

It is not an acid. A lot of people even... 

10:09 Rebecca Gadberry: It's not like an alpha-hydroxy acid. 

10:10 Trina Renea: Right. It's not an exfoliator. A lot of people think hyaluronic acid, because the word ‘acid’ is in it, it's meant for exfoliation and it is not. 

10:19 Rebecca Gadberry: No. 

10:20 Trina Renea: It's meant for hydration. It's supposed to hydrate your skin and help hydrate your skin. It is actually made by our bodies. It is actually almost in all products, a lot of them, because it helps to deliver their ingredients deeper into the skin, all the water. The first ingredient in all products that aren't in oil is water, so that it helps to make that product work better and pull it into the skin.

Hyaluronic acid is also used in a thicker form to make filler for people's skin.

10:56 Rebecca Gadberry: Which is injected. 

10:56 Trina Renea: Which is injected by a doctor. It's the ingredient that is used to fill the face with thick water, basically, that eventually, over a few months, will dissipate. And then that's why you have to get filler over and over again. A lot of them, most of them, a lot are made by hyaluronic acid. 

11:17 Rebecca Gadberry: But when you inject it, it doesn't dehydrate the skin, does it, Dr. V? 

11:21 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: No. And that's part of the, this online, these dermatologists who are saying, “Oh, hyaluronic acid dehydrates the skin, but it's great when we inject it.” Because it's true. You're injecting it in the dermal layer, the superficial dermis or the deep dermis or the mid-dermis, and it absolutely does not dehydrate the skin, so you're 100% right. 

I don't know if in your amazing lecture to our fans, where you’re going to talk about this, or if you’re going to talk about this, but can you explain low and high density hyaluronic? I have patients who call me and say, because we have a really lovely hyaluronic serum that I think is amazing. Is it low density or high density? I think to myself, like, do they even really know what that means?

12:05 Rebecca Gadberry: No, they don’t. What they're talking about is the size of the molecule.

12:08 Trina Renea: They're hearing these words online.

12:11 Rebecca Gadberry: We're actually, Trina and I are actually going to be doing a deep dive on hyaluronic acid and all the different forms of hyaluronic acid. That will be coming up later this year. Right now, I just want to say that if you’re using hyaluronic acid, it may or may not absorb a thousand times its weight in moisture. It may or may not release it into the skin, because if it releases— it's kind of like taking a long thread, saturating it with water, and putting it on your skin. 

If there's a humectant in the product, and humectants are what we call moisture magnets around here. Like glycerin, we talked about butylene glycol, there's a number of them out there that you're going to find in your product. We call them moisture magnets. They actually suck the water from the hyaluronic acid into the skin. 

And then you want to make sure that you're using something to act to hold that water in, like a thicker cream and also ceramides and omegas. 

13:15 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I love ceramides. I love omegas.

13:17 Rebecca Gadberry: So something that's going offer some texturizing and moisturizing…

13:21 Trina Renea: So what's the low and the high? Can you just touch on that?

13:25 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, you can get all the way down to— okay, let me see. There's a million molecular weight, which is this super long chain.

13:33 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: A huge molecule.

13:34 Rebecca Gadberry: A huge molecule and that is the original form of hyaluronic acid. That's probably, and I'm not familiar with the molecular weight of injectables, but is that close to what we would use? 

13:46 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: It's in kilodaltons, and I honestly don't remember. Some are cleaved and some they have BDDE in, and they're folded into other, some preservatives are in there. 

13:55 Rebecca Gadberry: To build up molecule.

14:00 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But the kilodalton numbers are a little different than like low and high molecular weight, hyaluronic acid put on the skin. 

14:08 Rebecca Gadberry: And then if we take that molecule, that million molecular weight molecule, and we do some enzymatic chopping up of the molecule, you'll see it on the label as sodium hyaluronate. 

Now, I've heard some people say, “Well, hyaluronic acid is the best, sodium hyaluronate is not as good,” or vice versa, depending upon what's in their products, usually. What's true is that sodium hyaluronate is a smaller molecule. It can get further into the top barrier of the skin, the stratum corneum, the surface of the skin, than hyaluronic acid. 

But there are new microforms of it. As a matter of fact, one of them is called micro-HA. Micro-hyaluronic acid and it is microscopic. I mean, it's very tiny. It's like 99 microns large. And it goes all the way through the barrier, down through the top part of the epidermis and into the epidermis that sits right above the dermis. 

This is the area where hyaluronic acid coats or engulfs new cells that are being born in the epidermis. They kind of act like the placenta— I'm sorry, the embryonic fluid in the placenta around the baby. It coats it. And the hyaluronic acid is made by the skin in that area to keep those cells fresh and moist and youthful. And then they break out of that area and they break up further into the layers of the skin where they become part of the barrier. 

So this micro-HA goes all the way down into that area of the basal layer of the epidermis where the cells are the birth layer, if you will, and helps to form a moisturizing bath, a hydrating bath on the cells so that they're younger looking and younger acting as they go up in the skin.

16:07 Trina Renea: Interesting. 

16:08 Rebecca Gadberry: So there's a variety of them. 

16:10 Trina Renea: So the myth of hyaluronic dehydrating the skin is not true. 

16:16 Rebecca Gadberry: No. It's based on the formula, the way it's used in the formula. It's also a lot of times based upon what size of the molecule we're looking at. 

16:27 Trina Renea: But is it true that some hyaluronic acid serums out there could dehydrate the skin?

16:32 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes. If you have hyaluronic acid that's in a gel form and there's nothing, there's no humectants in it, there's no moisturizers in it that are the creamy type of moisturizers, yes, those can dehydrate the skin.

16:47 Trina Renea: So if it's not held up by some other ingredients that are making it work.

16:51 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. You need to support it. Yes, absolutely. 

16:55 Trina Renea: Okay. We have a second myth that I wanted to ask you about. The higher an ingredient percentage, the better the result. 

Now, that being said, nobody knows the percentage of an ingredient in a product. You just see the label and it says the ingredients. There is an order of ingredients on the list, but me as a consumer or anyone out there is not going to know the percentage, unless a brand is trying to brag about the fact that they're selling this percentage and this percentage is going to work.

So can you explain what that means and then also explain the order that they're looking at of the products?

17:44 Rebecca Gadberry: When we look at an ingredient label, what you're looking at, again, is regulated by the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act that was written in 1977 or 1974. I forget what. But it's that piece of real estate on the container of a cosmetic that is governed by congress. You can and can’t do certain things in that ingredient list. We talked about that with Dr. Mindy at the beginning of the year.

So what that dictates is you list your ingredients in descending order of predominance. So whatever is the most to whatever is the least down to colorants, and colorants always go last. 

However, there's another rule that you can follow that you go from the most to 1%. Anything under 1%, even 0.99% goes in the bottom half of the ingredient label, or not even the bottom half, and I'll share the exception with you in just a second, but it can go in whatever order you want it to go. 

Let's say you hit 1% halfway through the label, and all of your ingredients after that are 0.99% or less. If you're using a preservative, which can be anywhere from 0.01% to 0.05%, you might put those at the very end of the label because people think that they're going to be the least. And you might be using a peptide at 0.01% and you might put that towards the very top of that second half to make it look like there's more in there.

So unless you are a chemist, you don't know actually what order it should be in. That is one of the reasons why I say you can't tell by reading an ingredient list what you're looking at.

Now, if you have a bunch of ingredients in there, I call them, it's frequently called kitchen sink formulas in laboratories. And one of the companies that's famous for doing this is Estee Lauder. They put in so many ingredients. Now, I do that too, and I have a reason for every ingredient that's in there, and so does Estee Lauder, so do a number of companies that put in a lot of ingredients. 

By the way, I want to do another myth here that just came to me, the myth of filler ingredients. A filler ingredient is just taking up space. It's not doing anything. 

Everything costs money when it goes into a product, into a formula. So if you add a “filler ingredient,” it's got to be doing something or you're wasting money. The only filler ingredients that I know of are the ingredients that are in there to get you to buy the product but aren't doing anything. A lot of those are like your herbal complexes or your herbs or even vitamins or peptides, some of the ingredients that you think are really doing something, but they're not. They're just there to get you to buy the product. 

So when we take a look... 

20:55 Trina Renea: To be able to talk about them on the label or whatever? 

20:57 Rebecca Gadberry: On the label, in your advertising. Say, “Oh, yes, this product has this ingredient. Oh, well, it must be good.” 

Then we're looking at, going back to the higher up in the list, the better. Well, there are certain ingredients that should not be used above 1%. That should be used at half a percent. Some of those are your peptides. Your vitamin C should not be the second ingredient on the label. The only reason that a lot of vitamin Cs have such a high percentage, let’s say at 20%, is that as the product ages, the vitamin C oxidizes and the available vitamin C to do the job is dissipating in the product. So by the time you use it, you’re going to get what the effective level is, which is about 2%. So that 18%…

21:52 Trina Renea: But they're allowed to say it has 20% on the label?

21:55 Rebecca Gadberry: Because when it goes in the container, it has 20% on the label. 

22:00 Trina Renea: There's a lot of marketing in it.

22:00 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Gosh, but there are those products where the vitamin C is like in a powder and you push it down and then you…

22:06 Rebecca Gadberry: That’s a completely different story because it's made fresh. I love those products too.

22:08 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, they're cool.

22:10 Rebecca Gadberry: And they liquefy too, which is a technology that was originally used for the breath strips. It was the breath strips, the clean breath strips. 

22:23 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Oh, yeah. 

22:23 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, that liquefies. That's the same type of technology. It's really interesting. 

22:28 Trina Renea: Breath strips that liquefy?

22:30 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Like the little strips for bad breath. 

22:32 Trina Renea: Oh, you put it on your tongue and it turns to like rubber?

22:36 Rebecca Gadberry: No, it turns to liquid.

22:37 Trina Renea: What? I’ve never seen that.

22:40 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: The fresh strips?

22:40 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, fresh strips.

22:40 Trina Renea: No. I'm going to go buy one just to play with it.

22:42 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, but they're strong.

22:44 Rebecca Gadberry: Anyway, it's the same kind of technology that you’re talking about that goes from powder to liquid. That is a way to keep the vitamin C absolutely fresh, stabilized, no oxidation. 

22:56 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah.

22:57 Trina Renea: Do they do that for eating purposes or for skincare?

22:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: No, for products. Yeah.

23:03 Rebecca Gadberry: So, again, when you’re looking for ingredients that are midway in the label, that’s what I was going to say. So when you load a product up with a lot of ingredients, your 1% is going to be higher up than halfway down. So you’re going to be looking towards the first five or six ingredients, and then you might hit 1%. 

I'm going to post on the blog when to look for ingredients that are used at around 1%, so that you can identify in some cases where the 1% is hit. 

23:41 Trina Renea: Okay. And talking about the vitamin C and the effects of that and how it works, some products, I would say a lot, and I think some people are fixing this, but they oxidize in there. They turn brown, the vitamin C. Are they still working when they turn brown? 

23:59 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, it depends upon how much vitamin C is left. And this is mostly ascorbic acid-containing products. When you look at, for instance, the stabilized forms of vitamin C, the ones that end in the scorbates or the scorbyls, B-Y-L, those are stabilized. Basically, they break away, they're stabilized by attaching them to another molecule, and then as they penetrate into the skin, they break away from that molecule, and so they're time released. 

You can get the same amount of vitamin C. In a lot of instances, you'll get vitamin C that's time released for up to 18 hours, whereas ascorbic acid slips right through the skin and gets into the bloodstream, as a matter of fact, and then is out of the body. It can be as fast as 15 minutes. So we want to retain that vitamin C and have its effects. 

But brown vitamin C or a product that has gone brown or turned darker color, that's an oxidized vitamin C. Not only is there less active vitamin C in there, but it oxidizes. So it can cause…

25:15 Trina Renea: Irritation. 

25:16 Rebecca Gadberry: And it can cause blackheads or closed or open comedones.

25:20 Trina Renea: So I would say if your vitamin C turns brown, change brands and throw it away. 

25:26 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah. And the FDA is interested in products that turn brown because they are adulterated. 

25:31 Trina Renea: Oh, I have a list. Give me their number. 

25:33 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah. They're adulterated because the oxidized form was not intended to go into the product, so they're not legal. Just look up the FDA under FDA.gov and you can get a phone number.

25:49 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But I think vitamin C is a really important part of a really great skin care. 

25:54 Trina Renea: Yeah, it's the number one. 

25:54 Rebecca Gadberry: It just has to be stabilized. 

25:56 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, but can you write down on either our show notes or if people email you? 

26:01 Rebecca Gadberry: How about if I do a blog? 

26:03 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Can you do a blog about the ones that you really love? 

26:04 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes.

26:05 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Because I think that that is really important. I feel like if they're going to put vitamin C on, I want it to work. I want it to be effective. 

26:13 Rebecca Gadberry: Okay, I'll do a blog entry with the name of the vitamin C, the percentage, and what it does specifically when it's put into a product. 

26:25 Trina Renea: What they should be looking for.

26:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Love it.

26:27 Trina Renea: Because I think antioxidants in general, not just vitamin C but antioxidants, period, are the number one thing. When people ask me, “What can I use that's anti-aging? What's the number one thing I can use?” I'm always like, “Sunscreen, number one, number two, antioxidants. These are the two things that are going to keep you younger longer.” Everybody should be using those two products.

It doesn't have to be vitamin C specific, but vitamin C is an antioxidant, but there's many antioxidants and many of them work really well together. 

27:03 Rebecca Gadberry: And vitamin C helps to regenerate vitamin E. Both of them are naturally in the skin. 

27:11 Trina Renea: But our body doesn't make vitamin C, does it? 

27:13 Rebecca Gadberry: No. 

27:14 Trina Renea: But it's in our skin? 

27:15 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Uh-hmm. That's why people get scurvy. It's one of the most…

27:19 Trina Renea: If our body doesn't make vitamin C, how is it in our skin naturally? 

27:23 Rebecca Gadberry: We eat it.

27:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And we hold onto it for months and months and months, but that's why pirates— not pirates, but yeah, pirates got scurvy. 

27:32 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, also people who were in the shipping trade.

27:34 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: The shipping trade for months and months and months. 

27:36 Trina Renea: Now, I'm confused. We're supposed to have vitamin C or not supposed to have vitamin C in our body?

27:39 Rebecca Gadberry: We are.

27:40 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Vitamin C is the best, one of the best antioxidants.

27:41 Trina Renea: So why did they get scurvy?

27:43 Rebecca Gadberry: Because they didn’t have vitamin C. They were on ships.

27:46 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Because we only store it so long. I think it can store for months at a time, but if they didn’t pack oranges and citrus fruits or they ate them…

27:54 Rebecca Gadberry: She's talking about ships in the 1500s, 1600s and 1700s.

27:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes.

28:00 Trina Renea: I thought you were saying that they ate so much of it, it gave them scurvy.

28:04 Rebecca Gadberry: No.

28:04 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: No, no, no. Lack of vitamin C causes scurvy, which is corkscrew hairs and little rashes. It's very, very unique. 

28:10 Rebecca Gadberry: Brittle bones and then death.

28:12 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes. 

28:12 Trina Renea: Does anybody in this world now get that?

28:16 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Anorexics, yeah. People with terrible eating disorders, people who— well, in places where there's famine, 100 % yeah.

28:22 Rebecca Gadberry: Absolutely.

28:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: It's very unusual but it does happen.

28:27 Rebecca Gadberry: And it's simple to take care of just eating an orange a day.

28:31 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Literally.

28:31 Trina Renea: Wow!

28:31 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, that's all you need.

28:33 Trina Renea: That's so cool.

28:34 Rebecca Gadberry: Citrus fruit.

28:35 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And not even every day because we do store vitamin C for a very, very long time.

28:38 Trina Renea: What about lemoning your water?

28:40 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Amazing.

28:42 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, and keep in mind that the vitamin C is in that white part of the citrus fruit between the meat and the skin. 

28:49 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But it's also very high in the skin, but nobody eats the skin. 

28:56 Rebecca Gadberry: I was raised to eat the skin. 

28:56 Trina Renea: I don't eat the white part either.

28:57 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: The skin is hard to eat, but it's like if you want to do salads and do like little lemon zest or orange zest or put it in your shakes, I'm a huge fan of that.

29:06 Rebecca Gadberry: And it tastes really good too. 

29:08 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Oh, it's so bright. 

29:09 Trina Renea: And bitter. 

29:11 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes. Yeah.

29:13 Rebecca Gadberry: Pasta. 

29:13 Trina Renea: Okay, I have another skin ingredient misconception, which is interesting to me, because I'm interested to hear what you're going to say. 

29:24 Rebecca Gadberry: I'd like to hear what you think about it first. 

29:27 Trina Renea: Alcohol in skincare dries out your skin. 

29:31 Rebecca Gadberry: Okay. So what is your take on that? This is a myth. 

29:36 Trina Renea: Okay. It's a myth that alcohol dries out your skin?

29:38 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. 

29:39 Trina Renea: Okay, so I'm going to say, to my knowledge, alcohol dries out your skin if you're using rubbing alcohol or some kind of alcohol that's meant for stripping oil. They put it sometimes in pads.

29:53 Rebecca Gadberry: When you say oil you mean sebum, right? 

29:56 Trina Renea: Sebum. Yeah, sebum, dirt. And people put them in acne pads to help get that pus and sebum and dirt and stuff. 

30:07 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Get the squeaky-clean feel, which I know Rebecca hates, the squeaky clean.

30:12 Trina Renea: But when you have really, really, really oily skin and you have acne all over your face, sometimes those wipes, that alcohol can be helpful in that case. But if you have dry skin, you shouldn't be using wipes that have alcohol in them because they will dry out your skin. 

But you're referring to alcohol, I think, what you're talking about is when you see alcohol in a label. Some of the ingredients is a type of ingredient that has the alcohol in the name doesn't mean that it's drying out your skin. Is that what you mean? 

30:43 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. Exactly. People freak out when they see alcohol in an ingredient label. Alcohol is simply a family of chemicals that have a certain atomic group, a hydroxyl group, H-O or O-H, attached to the main molecule. That's all it means. It can be a fatty alcohol, like stearic acid or cetyl alcohol. I'm sorry, stearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol. There's a number of fatty molecules that can be made into alcohols. I will put them on the blog.

31:21 Trina Renea: And what are they usually used for? 

31:22 Rebecca Gadberry: Those are emulsifiers. They're the ones that marry the water and the oil together. Stearyl alcohol is also found in the skin. It's part of our barrier lipids. 

31:32 Trina Renea: So that means that it makes water and oil in the product, work together so you're getting both oil and water. 

31:38 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. And it holds together instead of letting it separate out into layers, because oil and water are like an old married couple that hate each other and they don’t want to stay together. Well, I think of emulsifiers as the one who marries you…

31:55 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: A therapist. Puts you together.

31:58 Trina Renea: Yeah. Your emulsifier is your therapist.

31:59 Rebecca Gadberry: That marries you and then goes home to make sure you stay married. 

32:03 Trina Renea: That’s your therapist.

32:04 Rebecca Gadberry: That could be your therapist, it could be your priest, whatever. But that’s what an emulsifier does.

32:10 Trina Renea: It's my wedding ring. It keeps us together. 

32:11 Rebecca Gadberry: Is that your wedding ring?

32:12 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That’s your emulsifier?

32:13 Trina Renea: Yeah.

32:14 Rebecca Gadberry: It's emulsifiers. So the emulsifier will keep everything together so it doesn’t separate. 

32:22 Trina Renea: That’s often called an alcohol.

32:25 Rebecca Gadberry: Those are frequently alcohols. They are fatty alcohols and there are ways of recognizing fatty molecules. I'm going to post those on the blog on what to look for. 

And then we also have your alcohols that you were talking about. Now, I call them volatile alcohols or evaporative alcohols. Those are isopropyl alcohol and especially denatured alcohol, which could be SD alcohol. You could also see alcohol denat, D-E-N-A-T. Those are all alcohols like Trina's talking about. 

33:05 Trina Renea: That will dry out your skin.

33:07 Rebecca Gadberry: That would, or rubbing alcohol.

33:08 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That we use to prep the skin before we do a biopsy. I remember, I was lucky enough to do a summer in Paris where I studied at the Sorbonne. I was 16 and I was like in heaven, because Paris is my favorite place on the planet. We were hooked up with a roommate in this like cute dorm.

And this girl, I'd never seen it before, had rubbing alcohol and she put it on a pad, a cotton pad. She would clean her face with that every night. At 16, I even knew it then, and I wasn't going into dermatology. My dad was a dermatologist but I wasn't going into it. And I said, “Isn't that drying your skin?” 

And she said, “That's the point.” 

33:52 Trina Renea: She wanted that tight. 

33:52 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Because she must have had crazy, oily skin. I can't remember if she had acne or not, but I thought, “Oh, her face looks pretty good.” I guess it works on her.

33:59 Rebecca Gadberry: And there used to be a product called Ten O Six Lotion. 

34:02 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I remember Ten O Six. 

34:03 Rebecca Gadberry: You remember that? I used to live by it when I was a kid. It was predominantly isopropyl or ethyl alcohol, which is another one of these evaporative or volatile alcohols. The theory was, as you know, dry the skin out. 

But now we know that when we dry out the skin, we've got a damaged barrier. And as you were talking about, that's when staph can get in and other forms of bacteria. 

34:31 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: All irritants and all the allergens. 

34:36 Rebecca Gadberry: And acne is driven by inflammation. So if you're inflaming your skin with one of these volatile alcohols, then you're helping to support the acne. You're not cleaning it up. You're making it worse. 

There are other alcohols as well. Whenever you see O-L or Y-L in an ingredient name, that identifies an alcohol. So when we think about, let's say, retinol, O-L, that's the alcohol form of vitamin A. Tocopherol, that's the alcohol form of vitamin E. So not all alcohols are drying. As a matter of fact, most of them are not. It's only those four or five that can be drying to the skin, and we'll post that on the blog. 

35:20 Trina Renea: That is a super misconception because people don't understand that at all. 

35:24 Rebecca Gadberry: No, they don't. 

35:25 Trina Renea: So that's good that you explained that. Very good. Okay. And then what about oils that are bad for your skin, bad for oily skin? Like oils. That's something, you know, people don't put oil on their skin if their skin is oily. 

35:40 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. Avoid oil oils. It's not the oil. And the reason why do they say don't put oil on oily skin? 

35:46 Trina Renea: Because it'll make your skin oilier. 

35:49 Rebecca Gadberry: And it'll clog your pores. 

35:50 Trina Renea: And it will clog your pores. 

35:52 Rebecca Gadberry: And clogged pores are due to certain types of ingredients that oxidize easily. A lot of those are oils that will go into the pore and oxidize and clog the poor. 

There are oils that do not do that. As a matter of fact, they are good for acne and for oily skin. These are some of your omega's, predominantly your omega-6 oils. So I will also post on our blog the omega-6 oils and the oils that can be used on oily skin. 

36:27 Trina Renea: So I would say, like, for a touch-and-feel purpose, an oily skin person is not going to want to put in oil even if they know it's good. They're not going to want to use it. But if it's in an ingredient list, it's okay to use is what you're saying. 

36:38 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. It's okay to use. There's also very lightweight oils that we've made lightweight through the chemistry that makes them light enough to put on an oily skin. But by and large, most oils are too heavy for an oily skin to use. 

Now, as an esthetician, let me ask you this. In Europe, there was a trend that was brought over here for the time being, that oil dissolves oil. So for an oily skin, you would use an oil as your cleanser. What do you think of that?

37:13 Trina Renea: I never really got into oil cleansers. I feel like when you wash your face, you want to feel that kind of sudsy, soapy feel. And when you wash it off, you want to feel that it's not oily. So the feeling of putting on an oil to cleanse, it didn't feel good to me. Like, I never brought an oily cleanser into my line, nor did I bring a micellar water into my line, because I feel like water also doesn't feel cleansing. 

37:42 Rebecca Gadberry: That sounds like you said ‘my cellar’ water, like in your basement. 

37:48 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Micellar. Micellar water. 

37:51 Rebecca Gadberry: M-I-C-E-L-L-A-R. Actually, the water has something in it called a surfactant that attaches to the oils and the dirt. And then it rinses completely from the skin. Very lightweight. 

38:06 Trina Renea: Yeah, and I think that’s great for people who want to do that cleanse in the morning with it. That’s a good one, but I don't know. I just didn’t get into the oil takes off oil. I found it hard to think about any acneic person putting an oil cleanser on their skin. It just doesn't feel right. 

38:24 Rebecca Gadberry: Let alone convince your client that it's the right way to go. 

38:27 Trina Renea: It works too.

38:29 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I disagree with Trina in that I absolutely adore oil cleansers, but that's only because after a certain age, I became a little bit drier. I love— I mean, oil dissolving oil is sort of true. It's just different oils dissolving the oils that are already there. 

And another story from back in the day when I was in medical school, we had this lecture. I believe it was on skin. He was this old, crusty guy, super smart professor. He's like, “I just don't understand human nature. What we do is that we wash off our skin. We're in the shower scrubbing all of our skin and getting off all the dirt. And then we basically put oil right back onto the skin. Why do…” he was saying females, “Why do females put moisturizer on after the shower? Don't you want to be clean? Why are you going to put oil back on top of you?”

So, that concept didn't bother me at all, because he obviously didn't understand the idea of protecting the barrier. And so I think that putting oil in a cleanser, even if a little tiny, tiny bit of the oil still remains on your skin, although you do wash it all off. But even if the tiniest bit stays on your skin, that doesn't bother me at all. 

39:44 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, there is something to look for in an oil-based or an oil cleanser. There's some ingredients that are very simple emulsifiers, like lecithin, which is found in egg yolks. That makes the water and the oil slightly emulsify or emulsify very simply on the surface of the skin. Then when you add water to it, it rinses it away. 

Another one is polysorbate, P-O-L-Y-S-O-R-B-A-T-E. It can have a number after it like 20, 40, 60, or 80. But the polysorbate part is doing the same thing as the lecithin would. But it's cheaper than lecithin is.

40:23 Trina Renea: I definitely think that when people have dry skin, an oil cleanser, any oil, all oil feels good too, right?

40:32 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. Comfortable. Immediate comfort.

40:33 Trina Renea: You know what I always, it's an interesting thought I’ve had since I became an esthetician, is the fact that men don’t put anything on their skin. Nothing. They don’t wash it. they don’t moisturize it. They don’t put moisturizer on their body. Yet they don't have any problems. They're barely dry. 

40:53 Rebecca Gadberry: I know a lot of men that do. 

40:55 Trina Renea: I mean, there are men that do, but like most men, they don't have issues with their skin. 

40:58 Rebecca Gadberry: And as they get older they…

41:01 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Oh, my God. I see so many men with seborrheic dermatitis. I don't even... 

41:04 Rebecca Gadberry: Oh, yeah, and skin cancer. 

41:05 Trina Renea: Really? 

41:06 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Well, also, I have a weird perception then, because those are the only people that come to see me are the ones with seb derm. So, to me, every man has seb derm. But I know that's not true. 

41:13 Rebecca Gadberry: Every man in my life uses skin care, probably because…

41:17 Trina Renea: My husband has never used moisturizer on his body and he has never had a dry skin problem and never been to a dermatologist. 

41:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That's not his issue. That's great. I'm happy for him. 

41:27 Trina Renea: But I mean, it's interesting to me because men barely take care of their face, or their body. But they also can age with wrinkles and they look good. 

41:38 Rebecca Gadberry: I was just going to say. And their PR, men's PR is, “We look better with wrinkles,” whereas women's PR is, “No, we don't.”

41:46 Trina Renea: Yeah, so we use all these products to try and make us not wrinkle and then they age with wrinkles and you're like, “You look handsome.”

41:51 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, totally.

41:52 Rebecca Gadberry: You look great. I'm so attracted to you. Well, what about all the guys who are starting out as teenagers or 20s using good skincare? They don't age as fast as their uncles and their fathers do. 

42:05 Trina Renea: Yeah. I mean, you know if I had a son, he would be using skin care. Is your son using skin care? 

42:10 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Oh, hells yeah. 

42:11 Rebecca Gadberry: My son has bottles and bottles of skincare. 

42:15 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Oh, my God. And he's sort of fancy. I guess over the years I brought some things home and he kind of tends towards the ones that are sort of fancier, for whatever reason. He feels good on the skin. 

So, when he's done with the body, he's like, “Hey, Mom, I need this.” And so I'm like, whoa. He's really, like, he's got it going on.

42:30 Trina Renea: He's using it. That's good.

42:31 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I'm impressed, yeah. Although he rock climbs and he doesn't wear sunscreen and that infuriates me.

42:37 Rebecca Gadberry: That's a problem.

42:38 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Like, he says he has it on, he runs out the door and I know he doesn't. Can we all get on him for that?

42:44 Trina Renea: Oh, my God, my daughter came home with burnt skin the other day from school and I was like, “How is your skin? Did you not put your sunscreen on?” She's like, “No.”

I'm like, “Wait, I thought you were putting it on every morning. I saw you doing it.” 

She's like, “I've been forgetting.”

I'm like, “No. You have to put it on every morning before you leave to school. Like that's a must.” Like brushing your teeth. 

43:06 Rebecca Gadberry: What's the statistic for every blistering burn? It doubles or triples your chances. 

43:10 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Like seven times more skin possible. 

43:14 Rebecca Gadberry: Later in life. 

43:16 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Although those numbers always make me a little…

43:18 Rebecca Gadberry: I think they're adjusted now, because it's so different. 

43:19 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, and they say one sunburn gravely increases your risk of a melanoma. Well, of course it does. But ‘gravely’ what does that mean? Is it seven times more likely? I’ve read tons of different statistics.

43:30 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, I’ve read different ones too.

43:31 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: The point is don’t get any.

43:33 Rebecca Gadberry: Just protect yourself. Take action.

43:38 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Just one final thought on oily skin and putting oils on it, I personally don’t recommend it. But if they want to try and it works well on them, great. What’s your feeling about recommending oils for oily skin?

43:52 Rebecca Gadberry: If you have oily skin and you want to put a product on that has oil in it, make sure it's non-comedogenic and that its been tested to be non-comedogenic. Not just that non-comedogenic was slapped on the label.

44:05 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And like you said, the way that you know it's been tested is you contact the company.

44:08 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. 

44:09 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Because otherwise you will never know.

44:10 Trina Renea: And what do you say to the company if you're just a consumer? 

44:13 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, “You make a claim of non-comedogenicity. How was that determined?” Don't say, “Did you study it?” Because then they'll say yes. 

So just say, “How was that determined?” Leave it open to them to tell you. 

44:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Great. 

44:25 Trina Renea: Okay. So to finalize our episode today of the five ingredient misconceptions and one outright lie, we're finally to the exciting one.

44:34 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Let’s talk about the lie.

44:35 Trina Renea: What is this one outright lie? Should I say it? 

44:40 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes. 

44:41 Trina Renea: No, you say it. 

44:42 Rebecca Gadberry: That the cosmetic industry puts petroleum in their products. Excuse me, that's me screaming. 

44:49 Trina Renea: We don't. That's you screaming, “We don't.”

44:52 Rebecca Gadberry: No. Petroleum is the black goo that comes out of the earth and it's got all sorts of contaminants. 

44:58 Trina Renea: It's not Vaseline?

45:00 Rebecca Gadberry: You know, every time somebody says petroleum is in the products, I think of Jed Clampett in the Beverly Hillbillies at the very beginning where he strikes oil. Remember that? That's petroleum. 

45:12 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But I don't think people really know the difference. 

45:14 Rebecca Gadberry: No, they don't. 

45:14 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That petroleum is in petrolatum. So is the outright lie that they don't put petroleum or is the outright lie that we don't put petrolatum? No, there is petrolatum in products.

45:23 Rebecca Gadberry: There is but petrolatum is not petroleum. 

45:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Thank you. 

45:26 Trina Renea: Can you tell us the difference, please? So petroleum is the black oil. 

45:30 Rebecca Gadberry: Petroleum is the black oil, and it is a source material to take molecules from and then build around the molecules that we take from the petroleum to build unique molecules from that. For instance, petrolatum is a pure material that we take from petroleum. 

When back, I guess, in about middle of the 1800s, certain people were noticing that there was this jelly-like stuff forming on the outside of the oil rigs as the oil came up or the petroleum came up. It would separate from the main part of the oil. And this jelly-like material would form around the pipes as it rose up from the earth. 

Well, they would take that stuff and they'd put it on wounds and the wounds would heal better. That was the beginning of using petroleum jelly. That's why it was called petroleum jelly. Petroleum jelly, I believe, is a trademark. It is not listed on the container as petroleum jelly. It is a form of what we call petrolatum. 

And petrolatum is a white to yellowish, milky-looking gel that's very thick, that you can see in Vaseline, if you just buy straight Vaseline. It has had all the contaminants from the petroleum removed.

46:57 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Can you repeat that? It has had all the contaminants…

47:00 Rebecca Gadberry: All the contaminants in the petroleum removed. Whenever we use petroleum as a source material, and we're putting it in cosmetics or drugs, we remove the contaminants. When we use it for mechanics or for technical machinery, we leave the contaminants in. 

So there's the technical grade, where the contaminants that can cause cancer, comedogenicity, allergies, those are left in. There's the cosmetic grade, where the cancer part is taken out, the cancer contributors, and the comedogenic parts and the irritant parts are left in. 

And then there is what we call the USP grade, which is the US Pharmacopoeia, USP, that is identified by the government as being pure grade. And petrolatum, that is the pure grade USP petrolatum has no contaminants in it. When you're recommending a product as a dermatologist, you're recommending products that are the USP grade. You're not going to see that on the ingredient list most often. You're just going to see petrolatum. 

But mineral oil, which has been touted as being comedogenic, if it's cosmetic grade, it is. If it's a drug grade, it isn't. So it comes from petroleum. Paraffin comes from petroleum. 

And then there's a number of syllables that identify that an ingredient comes from petroleum. I will put that in a blog also so that people can, when you’re doing your ingredient list, you can see if it comes from petroleum.

48:42 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And I think it's important to remember that when we do removals, dermatologists do shave biopsies and excisions and plastic surgeons do plastic surgery, guess what we recommend they put over the sutures and for a month after the sutures are out? Petrolatum. That's it. We don't even really recommend Polysporin so much anymore. People don't need Neosporin, Polysporin. You actually just need Vaseline or Aquaphor. It's brilliant and it's safe. It's a purified version of what comes out of the earth and it's safe.

49:13 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. And anybody that says it has petroleum in it is not a chemist, does not know— you said that in an earlier podcast and I jumped on.

49:23 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Thank you. No, you're right.

49:25 Trina Renea: So what we can tell people, clients or whatever, is that it's not petroleum. It's petrolatum. It's taken from petroleum and had all of the bad things removed and it's pure and it's safe.

49:35 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. Yes, it's pure. No contaminants. Pure and safe. As a matter of fact, it's a drug grade that is used usually in cosmetics, always in drugs. One last thing about petrolatum as far as it being used on wounds and also to help repair the barrier of the skin, it's one of the best skin barriers that we have. 

Dr. Peter Elias who did his research on petrolatum at the beginning of the 1980s up at the University of California, San Francisco, discovered that just a thin application of petrolatum helped to repair the barrier totally in about 16 hours of a damaged barrier. It was one of the fastest things that had been found to help repair the barrier.

50:23 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And so inexpensive expensive and so available. 

50:25 Trina Renea: Yeah. That's what I learned in your office, Dr. Vicki, is you would tell patients, like, if they had cracks in their heels and stuff, you say, “Go home, put some Vaseline or Aquaphor or whatever on your foot, put a sock on,” and you wake up in the morning and it's pretty much healed up.

50:43 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I probably didn't say put a sock on. I probably said put saran wrap over it, because that will seal it in even better. 

50:50 Trina Renea: And then a sock over that. 

50:53 Rebecca Gadberry: We do a foot bath with Epsom salts, because Epsom salts acts as a humectant, for about 20 minutes. Take it out, lightly dry it, just slather the petrolatum on. Put on the saran wrap, then put on the sock. 

51:05 Trina Renea: Oh, you know what else? Friends of mine, they went, there's this hike you can take in Spain, from one side of Spain to the other. And you go to all the little pilgrim villages and they give you food and sometimes shelter if you want to stay the night for free. Like it's this whole thing. 

And they said before they went, they read a lot about it. People get giant blisters all over their feet. She read if they brought a big thing of Aquaphor or Vaseline, and they said every, I think, two or three hours, they would stop, take their sock off, put the Aquaphor on, put their sock back on, and they didn't get any blisters. This is what they learned from— no blisters. 

And they'd be sitting next to people that were just with these giant blisters and they're like, “Put Aquaphor on it.”

51:53 Rebecca Gadberry: And Aquaphor is loaded with petrolatum. It's not the same thing as Vaseline. That's a separate brand. But they're both loaded with petrolatum. 

52:00 Trina Renea: Yes. I don't know the difference between the two. I don't know. I don't work for them, but either one will do. They both work, I feel, like similar. 

52:11 Rebecca Gadberry: Absolutely. 

52:13 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Aquaphor is like the bougie form of Vaseline. And why, I have no idea. It's just slightly “fancier”.

52:19 Trina Renea: It's just a different brand, right? 

52:20 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, the packaging is fancier. 

52:21 Trina Renea: Yeah, I was told that it's more medicated. 

52:25 Rebecca Gadberry: That's interesting.

52:27 Trina Renea: I think Aquaphor told me that when they came into the office to deliver boxes of Aquaphor. I don't know. I don't remember. 

52:34 Rebecca Gadberry: Look it up on Google. Google that. 

52:37 Trina Renea: Google that. 

52:38 Rebecca Gadberry: So now you've had your five misconceptions. Actually, we tossed in the filler ingredient one too, so you've had six misconceptions and one downright lie. Now, you can go on with your day.

52:50 Trina Renea: Awesome. I learned a lot today. 

52:53 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, it was fun. 

52:54 Trina Renea: Thank you.

52:55 Rebecca Gadberry: You're welcome. Thank you for asking all the questions. 

52:59 Trina Renea: I hope you guys got some good information out of that. If you have any questions, you can email us at info@faciallyconscious.com. And check out our blogs on our website at Faciallyconscious.com and Rebecca will have some information that she talked about today up there, and we will see you next time. Thanks for joining in. Bye. 

53:20 Rebecca Gadberry: Bye.

53:20 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Goodbye, everybody.

[Outro] This podcast is so needed in the world right now. There's so much information out there that it's hard to know who to believe and if it's right for you. We are very excited to be your guides and bring you Facially Conscious. You can find info we talked about today in our show notes and on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook. 

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