DEEP DIVE - Taming Cellulite with products

Trina Renea  0:07  

Hey everyone, welcome to facially conscious. I'm Trina Renea and medically trained master esthetician here in Los Angeles, and I'm sitting with my rockstar co host, Dr. Vicki Rapaport, a board certified dermatologist with practices in Beverly Hills and Culver City, Rebecca Gadberry, our resident skincare scientist and regulatory and marketing expert, and Julie Falls our educated consumer who is here to represent you. We are here to help you navigate the sometimes confusing and competitive world of skincare. Our mission is to provide you with insider knowledge on everything from product ingredients to medical procedures, lasers, fillers and ever changing trends. With our expert interviews with chemists, doctors, laser reps and estheticians you'll be equipped to make informative decisions before investing in potentially expensive treatments. It's the wild west out there so let's make it easier for you one episode at a time. Are you ready to discover the latest and greatest skincare secrets? Tune in and let us be your go to girls for all things facially conscious? Let's dive in.

Rebecca Gadberry  1:31  

Hello, everyone, this is Rebecca Gadberry. I'm the resident cosmetic chemist here at Facially Conscious and I'm here with Trina Renea our wonderful esthetician and we are going to be talking today about cellulite products we talked to Dr. Danielpour about cellulite treatments, now we're going to talk about cellulite products and you may notice that I am saying celluLEET not cellulite because when cellulite treatments first came into this country about 40 years ago from France. It was bashed into our heads that you do not say cellulite you say celluLEET Oh, so I have never said cellulite and when everybody's here saying Cellulite it's like fingernails on a blackboard to me. And if there's any estheticians that are older like I am, that are out there that were taught celluLEET I apologize up front but now we say cellulite in the United States evidently, yeah.

Trina Renea  2:38  

Well, it's spelled like that. So I think that's, you know, we go with what things look like, in the English language.

Rebecca Gadberry  2:46  

Yes. Which is unfortunately, yes. I love that. You know, there's there's a thing in a training that I watched, took that even the English language that we were taught to spell phonetically. You can't spell phonetics phonetically. Right. Isn't that? And if you look at the look at the numbers, only 20 Oh, 234 you're Fibby and six. So the first six are first five numbers. You can't spell phonetically.

Trina Renea  3:31  

That's hilarious,  Who created this language?

Rebecca Gadberry  3:34  

Oh, gosh. It took a while. You know, one of my majors was linguistics so really don't get me started out.

Trina Renea  3:43  

Okay, let's get back to cellulite.

Rebecca Gadberry  3:46  

Cellulite, one woman Cellulite is another woman's cellulite tomato tomahto. Yes. So anyway, we're going to go into the product and ingredient side. We started that with Dr. Danielpour. If you haven't heard that episode, it's too before this one. He was amazing. We were hanging on every word we know you will too. He also in the one right before this talked about fat transfer, fat transfer, which kind of flows from cellulite treatments. So yeah, listen to that one too.

Trina Renea  4:21  

Yes. And he was telling us how he was very interested to listen to this episode to see what can go along with topically.  for cellulite. And so my question to you miss chemist over there cosmetic chemists is do cellulite creams really even work?

Rebecca Gadberry  4:40  

It depends on your expectations like with everything else, you know, what are you looking at for it to do? 

Trina Renea  4:45  

Take away the bumps? 

Rebecca Gadberry  4:46  

Yeah, if you have deep bumps and ripples on your skin, probably not as well as you would like them to. Then you might want to go to the treatments or procedures that Dr. Danielpour was talking about, going to a DERM or plastic surgeon who does them. But if you have light cellulite, let's say you're in your 20s, early 30s And you've got a little bit of dimpling. It may seem like a lot to you but you have a little bit of dimpling, then a product over maybe a 28 or 30 - 60 day period, putting it on once or twice a day, you should get some results. So of course, you want to look for certain ingredients but

Trina Renea  5:29  

right and so and you want to look for Cellulite, Cellulite in the label

Rebecca Gadberry  5:33  

 right someplace on the front label, it should say celluLEET or cellulite. It's spelled the same way. Yeah. Which is C E L L u l i t e, which is why we say cellulite in the United States. Like you were saying, yeah,

Trina Renea  5:34  

yeah. So what are some of the ingredients that you should look out for which ones you think work the best?

Rebecca Gadberry  5:57  

I've had a lot of experience with this because I've been formulating cellulite products since the probably 1979 1980. So I have seen every technology I've worked with every technology, and I'm going to rank them from best to maybe the least results. Some people may argue with me about the least results, but we'll talk about how they work and what they do. And another thing I want to be upfront about is that you're not going to look for these ingredients alone in a product. When you formulate a cellulite product, you need to have your performers, the ones that are going to help to work on the cellulite but you also have to have ingredients that help them get into the skin. Without that they're not going to do very much. So I'll give you the ingredients to look for as well for the skin penetrance Okay, okay. So let's start there's four different groups. And the, I think the group that works the best are called the Methylxanthines. Now, if you go to our website faciallyconscious.com. We are now able to under a subscriber only basis, let you see the the newsletter.

Trina Renea  7:17  

it will be through our substack.

Rebecca Gadberry  7:21  

So you can't get to it through the podpage?

Trina Renea  7:25  

 Yes, you can. 

Okay. Our producer is off to the side going, Yes, yes, you can. Yes, she can't I don't know a lot about Substack.

But we're excited about it. And so if you subscribe to our podcast, you can get our show notes on a newsletter every week. So if you want to get get those notes, and you want to and you can also get this the episode transcribed, so that you can read it if you'd prefer to read. We can now even do YouTube Live. And so you could just get so fancy Hello. Year two. So there's lots oh, we're in year three? Holy crap.

It goes so fast. I feel like it we just started this. Anyways, we're in a brand new studio. It feels great. 

Rebecca Gadberry  8:17  

yeah, we have our little Facially Conscious podcasts behind us. Yeah, we're so up there now. You know,

Trina Renea  8:27  

we're being told to move along.

Rebecca Gadberry  8:28  

We are? by our producers. Get to the point ladies.

Trina Renea  8:32  

Ok so Methylxanthines

Rebecca Gadberry  8:35  

Methylxanthines, so that's Methylxanthines. And xanthines are a group of chemicals that are in plants. There's over 60 of them and chemicals like caffeine are one of that group. Theobromine are in that group. So when people say oh, there's there's caffeine and chocolate there is it. There's Xanthine in chocolate, but there's not caffeine. And there's a big difference but I'm not gonna go there. That's a lecture for another day, time and year. What we're talking about now, though, are your methylxanthines and  there are some methylxanthines that work better than others. The two that work the best are Aminophylline and Theophylline. Both of these are in asthma medications. And the way we found out that they actually work on Cellulite is there was a study done in 1994/ 1995 at UCLA where they took  Aminophylline tablets again, used as a drug for asthma. They ground them up and then they put them into like an alcohol base to get them into the skin. There were I think 30 No, I'm getting a study confused. There were about 15 students involved students So at UCLA are between usually 17 and 22 years old. So my question with that one was, gee, how bad was there, so you leave. But anyway, they thought it was bad. They haven't seen mine, but they thought it was bad. And they found that the majority of those people did have a smoothing of the cellulite. What they did not report was they also had rashes, and some of them had welts. And that's what you get with that kind of a product with the  Aminophylline. So people backed off of that they started using something called Theophylline, which doesn't have some of the contaminants that the Aminophylline does. And the Theophylline work just as well as the Aminophylline. It was less likely to produce a rash or welts. But still in 10% of the people, they got rashes and 3% of the people they got welts. There is a another form of Theophylline called Theophylline Silane. And this Theophylline Silane is a combination of the Theophylline with a silicon little side molecule that helps to stabilize the Theophylline and get it past the skins barrier. So it's a skin penetrant I prefer Theophylline Silane. I have seen a lot better results with it. 

Trina Renea  11:26  

That's the one that gets through the barrier?

Rebecca Gadberry  11:28  

right? Yeah, you don't get as many rashes but you still get rashes. You still get some people with welts. As somebody went said to me, I don't really care about the welts as long as I can't see the cellulite. So as she would say, well, the welts kind of are the reverse of the cellulite. 

Trina Renea  11:46  

Still some kind of bumpiness. 

Rebecca Gadberry  11:47  

Yeah, it's a reverse bumpiness

Trina Renea  11:49  

but what they're seeing with their eyes, which is their expectations.

Rebecca Gadberry  11:54  

Absolutely. They're happy with so you know, so it's all expectations. Another group of the methylxanthine is like I was saying  theobromine and theobromine is found in chocolate. So people may have heard that before. In cocoa butter and in green coffee beans. And so we see green coffee bean extract in products for cellulite. That's why because it's got the theobromine in it. The reason that we put cocoa butter on our stretch marks is because it's got theobromine in it. So and in Hershey, Pennsylvania, you can actually get a Hershey chocolate treatment in or bath, in Hershey, Pennsylvania, and it's rich in theobromines. 

Trina Renea  12:42  

Fun! Does that help to take away your cellulite too? that chocolate bath? 

Rebecca Gadberry  12:44  

visibly, yes, it visibly smoothes the cellulite. So, so all of those are grouped together and I went from the most effective to the least effective on those so Theophylline Silane. Then you've got your cocoa butter and green coffee beans. Then you have your caffeine and caffeine can occur in a plant extract, like a coffee extract. We're not talking about rubbing coffee from your coffee cup onto your thighs, as much as you might want to do that. Green tea, matcha green tea, yerba mate, and there's other herbs as well. But these are the most common.

 if you made a bath full of those teas and soaked in it, would it help with your cellulite?

It might I have never studied that I do not know. But caffeine is used by itself also where we just isolate it from the plant. And we use it at 100% strength. We might only put it in at 2 - 5%. But it's 100% caffeine that we put in rather than putting in 2 - 5% of an extract, so you're getting more power. I think, you know, if you want to look at a formula that might use both, you might want to look at a Theophylline Silane with caffeine. If you want more bang for your buck, okay, remember, it's probably going to be more bucks too, because you got more of the performance ingredients. So the next one on the list are Retinoids and one of the reasons that Retin-a,  and I think Dr. Danielpour talked about this. One of the reasons we use retinoids is because they help to thicken up the dermis and in cellulite we have a thinning dermis. If you've ever looked at how your legs look in a thin or clingy pair of shorts or pants, or tights, you can see the cellulite bump because the fabric is so thin that if you wear a pair of Jean leggings, you can't see it because the fabric is thicker. The dermis is like the fabric in this instance when it's thin you can see the cellulite underneath more easily. So when you use the retinoid, it helps to thicken up the dermis. And this helps to make it less visible on the top of the skin. So you're looking for retinol or retinaldehyde. I always want to put an extra syllable in that. And, you don't need to use one just for your face, you can use one that's made for your body. Hopefully they've tested it, the brand has tested it and made sure that you're going to see results with it. 

Trina Renea  15:37  

Would you see in a cellulite cream a retinoid and also the caffeine and the Theobromine?

Rebecca Gadberry  15:44  

Yeah. Absolutely. 

Trina Renea  15:51  

 Theophylline 

Rebecca Gadberry  15:52  

haha! Can you say Comedogenic?

Trina Renea  15:56  

No, I still can't say that word. Don't make me do it.

Rebecca Gadberry  16:00  

That's a running joke. Everybody. If you're new to the podcast, that is a word that treated just like has a issue with 

Trina Renea  16:09  

my body, my tongue wont say it?

Rebecca Gadberry  16:13  

So yeah, the you can put them into all you can put all three together. There's no reason why you couldn't they're not going to argue with each other. 

Trina Renea  16:23  

probably more effective?

Rebecca Gadberry  16:25  

could be, I don't know, it depends upon your percentages. And it depends upon the skin penetrance that I was talking about. and it depends upon the base, whether it's a lotion, or a gel or a cream.

Trina Renea  16:37  

And you were saying before, to look at some of the befores and afters and some reviews to see if a product is one product from another is going to be..... But you think the most effective ingredient is that?

Rebecca Gadberry  16:53  

Theophylline Silane

Trina Renea  16:54  

So look that up in the Google search right? 

Rebecca Gadberry  16:57  

The Google  Yes. So when you do a Google search, you have an option for shopping. Click on shopping to do your Google search, I can't say that word. We're doing well. End of Day, and we've just been drinking water imagine. And coffee for me. So these are leave on ingredients. And yes, they can be used in combination, they can be used alone, you're going to be looking for these ingredients, like third, fourth ingredient down from the start of the list to about halfway halfway down. You don't want to see them in the bottom. But you also don't want to see them at the very top because there'll be to strong. 

like in the first two or three ingredients?

Right, They'll most likely be too strong and then you're more likely to get a rash or welting if you're predisposed to welting 

Trina Renea  17:29  

So, let's say just a question. if you were to get a rash from a product that you were using like that, could you just stop let the rash heal and try different cellulite cream? then do you go oh, I have an issue to cut it down Yeah, right

Rebecca Gadberry  18:10  

Or you could take a benedryl. because that'd be an allergic response we

Trina Renea  18:11  

don't know. Right? So then you could try another cellulite cream that may cellulite cream that may have the same ingredient but if it also gives you a rash you know it's a problem with that ingredient

Rebecca Gadberry  18:23  

Yes,, absolutely so ingredients that you're going to look for that are skin penetrance are ethoxydiglycol, and this is the most commonly used skin penetrant for this type of a system ethoxydiglycol, again, look in the newsletter if you want to know how that spelled. 

Trina Renea  18:47  

You'll see that on the ingredient list?

Rebecca Gadberry  18:48  

 you'll see it on the ingredient

Trina Renea  18:50  

 lower down or upper on the top?

Rebecca Gadberry  18:55  

could be up or it could be lower. right it's to make the skin more permeable, okay eat more easily penetrated. PROPANEDIOL, and PROPANEDIOL again is another type of skin penetrant. Both of these are commonly used. And then there is an ingredient called Bisabolol. That is also a calming ingredient but there's data on it being a skin penetrant it comes from German Chamomile, it can also be synthetic, and it's also found in some of these products. So you're going to be looking for skin penetrants. You also want to prepare the skin. So preparing the skin is making sure that you use an exfoliator maybe two or three times a week so that 

Trina Renea  19:49  

could be skin brushing?

Rebecca Gadberry  19:51  

 it could be skin brushing, which is also exfoliating for the area. and that could also add to the effects of how these things ingredients work. So I'm gonna go into how these work in just a minute, let me cover the last two groups. And these last two groups are not left on the skin. These last two groups are, they occur and things like body wraps. We had a client that came out with this new body wrap, like in 1983, she took this full page ad in the Dallas chronicle or the Dallas times. And it was this beautiful, slim, well formed female body from the torso down to the hips. And it had this huge headlining big, big type, body warp. So whenever I think of body wrap, I think of body warp.

Trina Renea  20:48  

oh my god, 

Rebecca Gadberry  20:49  

i Know, it just ruined it for me. But there's also, you might also see some of these, they're called Hot oils. They help to heat up the skin. And this helps with working with that fat layer. What we what you might see them in a lotion. But if you put them on, and then you wrap your skin with like cellophane, which is how they're usually treated. You can have problems, you can have not only rashes, and larger percentage of people have rashes to these than even the   Theophylline that I was talking about. But if you wrap too tightly, or you wrap too much of an area, you can have breathing problems. So that could be an issue.

Trina Renea  21:39  

I could never do these. I'm too claustrophobic. 

Yeah, yeah, I know. Me too. And another thing with the Theophylline and the Aminophylline, predominantly, one of the things that we found out early on in 1995, when they were first being used, is that when you put them on large parts of your body and they penetrate, they can affect your breathing, and your heart rate. So if you get heart palpitations, if you get a rapid heartbeat, tachycardia, or if you have trouble breathing, go to the doctor and tell them that you are using one of these medications or one of these products, because when they first came out, we had all of these women winding up in hospitals, and then spontaneously healing because they weren't using the product. So they got better in the hospital. And so it was all put up to Oh, God, they must have imagined it. I happened to be the person that figured it out. believe it or not. And I wrote a big article about it from one of the magazines that I was writing for. Then I called the FDA and I told them, they hadn't even heard of this yet. So they were then alerted to it. And a bunch of things happened. But it wasn't until I started talking to a bunch of people. 

using it at big doses? like putting it in big area areas?

Rebecca Gadberry  22:59  

your thighs and your booty, you know, and sometimes those are big areas. well, they're relatively speaking. They're big areas on everybody. Yeah. So yeah, so if it works, it could be a problem. And another problem that we see with these, especially the Theophylline it and the caffeine is that we're releasing fat from fat cells. And we can't say that to the general public because that's acknowledging that this is a drug and these are cosmetics, but they are releasing fat from fat cells. So one of the things that we see is we see increases in triglycerides and cholesterol in the blood. I had one client or one lady because I used to sell these products on home shopping and one lady call and get very angry with me because she was supposed to be giving a kidney to her sister and she couldn't because your cholesterol went up and had no idea that that would happen. I didn't either but then I did some research and yeah, it can happen. The other issue with this is, again, home shopping store, I love home shopping stores. A lady called me at three o'clock in the morning, one morning. She used to call me every month that I was on and she used to call at three in the morning. and she'd say, I'm so excited. I have so much energy. I'm cleaning my house when I get home at night. I clean and I can't go to sleep. So I make dinner for the following night. They do all these things. And I thought it was funny. Well, yeah, fat gives you energy. So like when you diet you get more energy. Well, when you use these kinds of products, if they work, you're gonna get more energy. So don't be surprised if you have a little trouble sleeping or you have more energy, yeah. So it happens and the problem with the way that the cosmetic laws are written in this country is we can only make temporary surface claims for our products. So if we claim to do anything below the surface, the barrier below the barrier of the skin, we're making a drug claim. So we can't tell people that these are side effects, because then we'd be making a drug claim. So it's very unfortunate. I don't like the way that the laws written it was written in 1938. But it's not going to change anytime soon. So we're kind of stuck with it, which is why 

Trina Renea  23:19  

is congress ever going to get on that?  

Rebecca Gadberry  25:22  

Well, Congress actually did pass a new group of regulations the most wide reaching since cosmetics were first defined and regulated by Congress in 1938. And that's rolling out over the next few years. And I know we're going to talk about that at some point. So we'll save that. So, these hot oils, you need to be careful because they can burn you. They're short lived. So you might have a body wrap go out because you want to fit into a tight dress or tight slacks or whatever, go out have a couple of drinks at a cocktail party, and wo, you're bursting out at the seams, because the water comes right back into the tissues, so remember that it's temporary, it's not going to last very long, maybe 48 hours. And if you drink water or alcohol, the effects are gonna dissipate faster than if you didn't drink water or alcohol, and hopefully you are drinking water. So Right. And then the last one is laminaria digitata. 

Trina Renea  26:28  

One of my fav's

Rebecca Gadberry  26:29  

One of my fav's, I like to say laminaria digitata. Anyway, it's a it's a type of seaweed, it has iodine in it and we do seaweed wraps, we do seaweed baths and it works very similarly to the hot oils without the heat. So it's going to help reduce the limph that's building up in this area. And what I didn't say what I didn't preface all of this with is how these work. Because when we take a look at cellulite, as Dr. Danielpour was saying, there's these cords that attach from the dermis down through your fat layers and there's two layers of fat there's a top layer where Cellulite occurs. And there's a bottom layer where the rest of the fat occurs. And there's this cord that attaches it. So it's kind of like on a sofa or a chair where you're sewing the button on and then you're doing all the stuffing or the battening around it and you poke it out so that you get a dimpling effect, that's what Cellulite is. So if you can reduce the amount of stuffing, then the dimple is not as obvious. And so what these ingredients do all of the ingredients I was just talking about what they do is they help to reduce the amount of stuffing, now what will cause that stuffing is a buildup of fat, and a build up of a liquid called lymph. So in order to get the the upper fat layer to thin out and not to have so much pooching around that cord, you want to reduce the amount of lymph, which is what lymphatic drainage massage does, which is what you're brushing does, your dry brushing does, which is also what laminaria digitata, your hot oils and your hot oils, by the way are your cinnamon, clove, those types of oils that smell like Christmas, okay, if it smells like Christmas is probably going to affect cellulite. Yeah isn't that fun? . So the hot oils, those are the ones that work rapidly but temporarily. And then you have your methylxanthine that take longer to work but they have a longer lasting effect. Okay, so when you're using these ingredients, they're helping to move the lymph out of the tissue, and they're also helping in the case of the methylxanthine. So they're helping to empty out the fat cell. Okay,

okay. Okay. And these are on continued use.

continued use and depending upon the brand, it could be once or twice a day. Which remember, you have a large area that you're covering. So if you buy a six ounce bottle, you're gonna go through it if you're using it every day, twice a day, you're gonna go through it within a few days. 

Trina Renea  29:32  

What? 

Rebecca Gadberry  29:32  

Yeah, because it's a large area. So you've got to have a larger size. Some of these companies are selling the cellulite products with the methylxanthine 's in them. Six ounces for $60. Well, you need a thin layer but you need enough to deliver right so remember, the percentage in the product has to be put on the skin at a certain percentage. If you don't use the right amount you're not getting the percentage that works. 

Trina Renea  30:00  

thats a lot of work

Rebecca Gadberry  30:01  

it is a lot of work. I'm not saying this is the best way to go. We're asking me a question. So right answering. So yeah, so

Trina Renea  30:09  

So cellularly products work on skin that isn't super dimply. And I mean, you'll have the best results, probably with not super dimply skin super dimply skin should maybe go see a derma or plastic surgeon

Rebecca Gadberry  30:28  

probably to begin with and then you can follow up and maintain with the cellulite product. So these still have a recommendation for me after you have the procedure. Otherwise, it'll take a month or two to get an effect, which means if bathing suit, weather is in March, April or May, June, you're gonna want to start using things in January up to March, which is the most popular time to buy a cellulite product, by the way, right, right. So there's some other caveats too. And so that gotta be used twice a day. Most people don't see any improvement for six to eight weeks. It's best to use them with other treatments like the acoustic wave therapy that Dr. Danielpour was talking about. With this subsission with the Yag minimally invasive laser, you must continue to use the treatment twice a day, or the signs of cellulite will disappear, which is why these are only popular in the summertime, because who cares about the rest of the time? Right? Right. 

Trina Renea  31:35  

unless you're going on a vacation at Christmas somewhere? Sunny? 

Rebecca Gadberry  31:39  

Yeah. In which case, if you're going away at Christmas, you start using these in September, October. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got to think ahead on these. Okay. And then, oh, you can also see these in lyposomes. So, okay. And the main problem with these are the rashes and the welts

Trina Renea  32:06  

So if you're making a rash and or a welt, stop using the product and try to a different one, right? Exactly. See if it's the ingredient or just the product itself,

Rebecca Gadberry  32:19  

right. One of the questions that I get is if these work like this, why don't you tell anybody? Why does it simply say that visibly relieved signs of cellulite because we can only make visual claims. So according to the FDA, and the act of Congress that regulates cosmetics, so we're never going to say it gets rid of cellulite. We're simply going to say the signs of cellulite minimized or go away. And as one lady told me, I don't care how it works. I just want to have them go away, visibly is fine. So I'm good with that. So and then. what about body wraps? I think we talked about so. Yeah.

Trina Renea  32:19  

All right. Well, I think that kind of rounds out the whole cellulite, fat transfer and product arc that we did, yeah. I think that's good. I mean, it gives people options. You know, they could they can go from those the littlest where they can buy products at home and do dry brushing and lymph massage all the way to getting a fat transfer, which he says is one of his favorites. And many others in between. Yeah, probably less price points. 

Rebecca Gadberry  33:36  

talking about price on these products, you're probably looking at a starting range of $80 per eight ounces. depends upon how much skin you have to cover. And whether you're going to use it once or twice a day. So typically, they last about three to four weeks. 

Trina Renea  33:56  

Dang. that is expensive. All right. Well, good things to think about people. Now, you know, all your options for cellulite.

Rebecca Gadberry  34:06  

You know, Dr. Danielpour said less is more or something like that. When it comes to product less is not always more. The right amount is the right amount, not less and not more. So use what you're being told. Yeah. In the way you're being told in the amount you're being told.

Trina Renea  34:25  

exactly. Good point. Well, thanks, Rebecca. That was very thorough and helpful.

Rebecca Gadberry  34:32  

It's called a deep dive. 

Trina Renea  34:33  

I learned a new word today, which I still can't say. But i learned it. Theophylline Silane

Rebecca Gadberry  34:40  

And now people are going to be dreaming about this.

Trina Renea  34:45  

So go look for it. Goodbye. All right. Bye, everyone. Thanks for joining. Get ready to stay in the know with facially conscious The Ultimate Guide to navigating the overwhelming world of information. We're your trusted co hosts bringing you the latest and greatest on all things Facially Conscious? Have a burning question or idea you want to share. Don't hesitate to email us at info@facially conscious.com. We'd love to hear from you. And if you're itching to share your own experience with our audience, contact us and we've just may feature you on an upcoming episode. Stay tuned for even more insights and inspiration on our website facially conscious.com where you can catch up on blog posts and past guest interviews.