Beauty Unlocked: Celebrity Esthetician Trina Renea Reveals the Secrets to Being a Great Esthetician

[Intro] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Facially Conscious with myself, Trina Renea, esthetician, Dr. Vicki Rapaport, dermatologist, Rebecca Gadberry, the cosmetic ingredient guru, and our fabulous, overly-educated consumer, Julie Falls. We are gathered here together with you to talk about this crazy world of esthetics. It's confusing out there in this big wide world. 

That's why we are here to help explain it to you all, subject by subject. We will be your go-to girls, and from our perspective without giving medical advice, we will keep things facially conscious.

Let's get started. 

01:00 Julie Falls: Welcome to Facially Conscious where you get the skinny on all things skin. I'm Julie Falls, your highly-educated consumer. Today, we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics. We're going to talk about facials 

Oh, I can go on and on, and on and on about facials. But before I do, I want to introduce our Beverly Hills board-certified dermatologist, Dr. Vicki Rapaport, and she's going to share with you one of her favorite tips. Vicki, do share. 

01:31 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Okay, so my pet peeve of the day is magnifying mirrors. 

01:37 Trina Renea: My favorite. 

01:38 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And so people have 10-time mirrors, 5-time mirrors, 10-time mirrors, 20-time mirrors, where you can see every single pore, and nobody is supposed to see every single pore. 

01:48 Trina Renea: Except for me, the esthetician. 

01:50 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Okay, except for the facialist, which is amazing, since we're talking about facials today. But what I think happens is you get the magnifying mirror to put on your makeup, perhaps, which I think is great. Put on your makeup and then walk out the door. Do not continue to evaluate every pore, every sebaceous hyperplasia, every little tiny hair. It is actually frightening what you can see.

There are patients who destroy their skin because of these magnifying mirrors. So please do this for your makeup and not to pretend like you're an esthetician at home. 

02:22 Julie Falls: I mean, you are singing to the choir because I don't do anything without one. If I'm traveling, I call the hotel, “Do you have a magnifying mirror in your room,” or I travel with one. Well, it's also because I don't see great and I have to put on my makeup. But everyone I know is obsessed with their pores and…

02:40 Trina Renea: They shouldn't be looking in those, and I tell people that too. 

02:42 Julie Falls: They are finding things that years ago, before— well, I do remember my mother sitting in front of one of those gigantic makeup mirrors with the big lights around her, like she was in vaudeville or something. Do you know what I'm talking about?

02:56 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes. 

02:58 Julie Falls: Were those magnified, those things? 

02:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Oh, yes.

03:00 Julie Falls: One side was and one…

03:01 Trina Renea: Yeah, they had a little piece of it that was. Yeah, go ahead.

03:06 Rebecca Gadberry: Okay, but what about those of us who are going to be 70 and can't see without a 10-time magnifying mirror? I can't put my eye makeup on. 

03:13 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That's what I said, though. 

03:13 Trina Renea: Put your makeup on and then walk away. 

03:14 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Just do it for your makeup, but don't evaluate your skin as if you were your facialist. 

03:18 Julie Falls: Don’t sit there and examine.

03:19 Rebecca Gadberry: I have to evaluate because I test so many products. That's my excuse.

03:23 Julie Falls: No, but just sit there and examine every pore every second. 

03:26 Trina Renea: Okay, let me tell you what I tell my clients when they tell me that, oh, they have these things that you can't see without a magnifying lens. I tell them nobody sees that. When people look at you, they're standing at least five feet away and that's how they see you. So stand that far away from the mirror when you're looking at yourself. If somebody is that close to your skin, it's dark and the lights are down, so they don't care. 

03:49 Julie Falls: So in your practices, have you broken people of this habit and they've gotten actually cured of it? 

03:57 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Oh, yes. And I remember when I was a resident, one of our attendings was great. He was like a no-nonsense, brilliant, brilliant guy. He'd whirl into the room and whirl out of the room. He was just amazing. 

And one of the first things he would ask women who he could tell that they were picking, I didn't even know back then how he could tell, but he'd kind of smile at them and say, "Do you have a magnifying mirror at home?" As if he was kind of excited about it. Of course, every time he would ask that, they would say, "Yes, I do." 

Then he would change his facial features and say, "Throw it away." 

04:30 Trina Renea: I was the exact same way when I worked in your office, Dr. Vicki, because your office, in a dermatologist's office is where you see the really heavy pickers. They end up in a dermatologist's office because they're picking those little things out of their face that they see in those magnifying lenses and they'd always end up in the esthetician room with me. I could always tell, as soon as I saw scabs all over their face, I'm like, "Do you have a magnifying mirror?" 

And they'd be like, "I do, and I can't stand it." 

And I'd be like, "Throw it away." I tell people to throw it away all the time. 

04:58 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That's why you and I are on the same page. 

04:59 Trina Renea: I know. 

05:00 Rebecca Gadberry: That's a great segue into why to get a facial. 

05:03 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I love that. 

05:03 Julie Falls: Yeah. I have to say, I'm very proud because everyone I've gone to says, "You're so good, you're not a picker." I'm proud to not be a picker. 

05:11 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I'm proud of you too, Julie. 

05:12 Trina Renea: I'm proud of you too. And I also tell clients if when you're a picker or you're looking at your skin too closely, if you come and get facials regularly, you'll probably not pick as much because you won't have things to pick at and you won't be trying to get all the little tiny blackheads you're seeing and stuff like that. 

05:32 Julie Falls: Because you're taking care of them for them. Tell us why, other than that, why a facial? Why should we be getting facials on a regular basis? 

05:41 Trina Renea: Well facials are meant for a deeper exfoliation that you can't do at home or shouldn't be doing at home because you can't control it and you're not in a controlled situation, where we learn how to control an exfoliation and how far you can go on what types of skin so we can do a deeper exfoliation. 

The reason we do that? What I like to tell people is your skin normally, the cells regenerate themselves every 28 to 30 days when you're younger, when you're little all the way till your early 20s. Then that process slows down so the cells aren't turning over as fast. That's how the decline of age starts to happen. So you need to do a little more exfoliation than your body is doing. 

So if the cells slow down and they're not moving up as fast, that means the dead skin is sitting on the surface for longer. The way that your body or your DNA knows to make a new cell is when your cell pushes the dead skin off, then it goes, "Oh, we need a new cell." 

If we as estheticians can help you, that's why we say come once a month, to slough off that dead skin. It can stimulate new cell growth quicker. So we speed up the metabolism of the cell growth. 

06:53 Julie Falls: So somebody can't do that at home? 

06:55 Trina Renea: You can help yourself at home with a light exfoliation, which again should be, I feel, that product should be determined by an esthetician or a dermatologist because we know what percentages you should be using. 

A lot of people, they're like, “Oh, I need to exfoliate,” so they'll get some really rough scrub, which doesn't work so well, that can make your skin sensitive and irritated. Or they'll buy offline a strong glycolic or a really strong retinol, or they'll buy even Retin-A off of online. They don't know how to use it right and they're overusing it, and it's not right for their skin type, and they can get sensitive skin as well and end up in the dermatologist office, or in an esthetician office. 

So, I feel like you need to be guided with exfoliation. An esthetician will do a deeper exfoliation at the office, and then she'll recommend something to use at home that kind of just gets off those very top layers on a consistent basis. And you'll see that your skin, as you're getting facials, starts to improve. 

Over time, you're like, “Wow, my skin looks really good all the time now.” It's because they're being consistent with facials. 

The other thing we do is we do extractions. So we keep your pores clean. If you're prone to blackheads, prone to oily skin, gets cystic acne even, we don't treat cystic acne, but we can use high frequency current to help kill the bacteria in those cysts. We often will work with a dermatologist who has them on medications and things. 

We help with acne patients. Not all estheticians do acne, and you have to be so careful because, unfortunately, estheticians don't learn proper extraction procedures in school. We're taught to use tissue and squeeze, which is not the recommended way to extract.

I, luckily, got to work with Dr. Vicki, who taught me how to do proper extractions from a medical dermatologist office. 

08:59 Julie Falls: So you're telling me that the training that most estheticians receive is not really correct? 

09:06 Trina Renea: Well, they learn how to do— we are taught electricity and a little bit of chemistry, a little bit of biology, and we're taught how to keep things super sanitary. 

09:20 Rebecca Gadberry: And that's the reason for licensing in California and throughout the country for those states that still license for esthetics. The purpose of being licensed is to learn how to prevent spreading infection and disease and how to keep a sterile environment. The rest of it is up to the school. 

Now, there are some schools that have adopted the technique that Trina's talking about. There are other schools that teach a different way. And it depends upon where in the United States you are as to how you're taught. 

In California, most of the schools do teach using the Kleenex or the tissue technique that Trina's describing, but there are other states such as Utah…

10:04 Trina Renea: That teach proper extraction.

10:06 Rebecca Gadberry: That teach different extraction. 

10:09 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I have a medical assistant that went to esthetician school. She's still with me. She wanted to become an esthetician. I watched her every day. It was night school. So excited, asking her all these questions. 

“Dr. Vicki, I'm learning nothing. I don't understand how is this esthetician school?”

I'm like, “Well, just keep waiting, keep waiting.” 

She finally finished esthetician school, she graduated. She was basically in tears. She's like, “I learned nothing.”

And I said, “How can you learn nothing? It's LA, it's California, the strictest regulations.”

And she's just like, “They didn't teach us anything.”

So I guess my perspective is I didn't go to esthetician school. I'm a dermatologist, but I think that estheticians need to just, unfortunately, practice once they're out. It's all about…

10:52 Rebecca Gadberry: Advanced education. 

10:53 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Advanced education, experience, practice, get better and better and better, but I feel like it is good to have a mentor, if they can find somebody that can mentor them. 

11:01 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And looking for certificates on the wall of your esthetician in the room or in the practice, look for advanced education certifications, such as Trina took UCLA. 

11:14 Trina Renea: I have bookfuls of advanced— yeah, I was going to put them all over my wall, but my wall was too small for all of my advanced education. So I put them in like a binder so people could look at them. 

11:27 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. I like it when people do that. 

11:28 Trina Renea: But I also, when I was working for Dr. Vicki years ago, I've been in this business 20 years now and I worked for her after the first year of my career for eight years, so I did a lot of extractions. I, at the time, realized like, “Oh, my God, like we didn't learn this in school, this technique.” 

So I would actually go to schools and I would sit with them and volunteer my time and show them, “This is what you can extract with your fingers, these you should not extract. You need a comedone extractor or some kind of a needle or something. So if you see these, don't extract them.” I would try and teach them what they can and can't do under the law. 

And I also now, still to this day, teach estheticians coming out of school. I teach extraction sessions, consultations. Another thing that you don't learn in school, consultations, which is the number one most important thing for an esthetician. 

12:24 Rebecca Gadberry: It's the key to everything that happens after that.

12:26 Trina Renea: Right, and I learned that at the doctor's office as well, with Dr. Vicki, is how to do a proper consultation. You need to know these things. Write everything down. Have it in a file for them. 

12:37 Rebecca Gadberry: And if your esthetician isn't doing it every time you come in, at least an abbreviated version, then that esthetician is not doing the proper service. 

12:46 Trina Renea: Oh, for sure. Every time I see a client, when they come in, I go, "How's your skin? Anything changed? Anything new you're using?" Always, that’s the first thing.

12:54 Julie Falls: Just like I went to a facialist once who used to say, way before you, Trina, of course, she used to say, "What are we doing today?" 

I was like, "Well, you tell me. You're the…” I'm supposed to plan…

13:05 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, it's not a haircut. 

13:06 Julie Falls: Yeah.

13:15 Trina Renea: Being an esthetician takes a lot of work and a lot of training. I train every year. I consistently train. I'm taking different classes. You have to stay up with it. Things change all the time. You need to know the medications the doctors are putting your clients on. 

13:31 Rebecca Gadberry: And why.

13:32 Trina Renea: And why. And you need to be able to be confident as an esthetician, to call a doctor if you're treating one of their patients, and ask the office like, “Hey, I heard they're using this. Is it okay if I give them a facial,” or, “Can I do microcurrent on them,” or, “Is it okay if I do…” Because some people are on Accutane, even. There's lots of different things that, with training and time, estheticians do.

But you can get a facial mostly to get exfoliation, extractions. And then after that, we need to calm the skin down so that you leave looking better than you did when you came in. Some people get a little more swollen than others in extractions, but overall, they shouldn't be leaving super red and irritated and swollen. 

14:20 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I have a question, Trina. I had this one patient who came in, had had a facial elsewhere and she was so upset that the esthetician didn't extract every single pore. Every single pore. That she had left that treatment and she still had all these blackheads in her nose.

And I said, “You know, as a dermatologist, I don't recommend them extracting every single pore, because some of them aren't blackheads. They're just pores, enlarged pores with normal sebum in them.” And I said, “If she would have extracted every single one of those pores on your nose, in the morning you would have woken up and they would have been filled up again.”

So I think that people, we need to manage their expectations. Some estheticians do get out every single pore and so these clients expect for that to happen every single time. But I feel like if you're going to do that, and if you're going do it every month, you can actually change the cartilage of the nose. Your cartilage is malleable. I don't think they need to extract so aggressively. 

15:11 Trina Renea: So, the nose is a funny situation because some people's noses just are always full of oil. When the oil comes to the surface and oxidizes, it turns dark on the surface. Underneath that, it's not black. 

I have people that use antioxidants regularly and those don't oxidize, and so they don't look black anymore. Also, when you're extracting someone's nose, sometimes the blackheads are so impacted that they don't come out. You get out what you can. 

But what the esthetician needs to do is explain your blackheads are very, very compacted so you need to use some kind of a glycolic or exfoliation at home that's going to help loosen that and liquefy it more so that next time you come in, I can get the rest of them out. I got out all of the ones that I could get out. That patient would have never said that if the esthetician would have told her that. 

Also, if she's looking through a magnifying mirror, always your pores are going to look like they have stuff in them. So I would ask that patient, “Are you looking in a magnifying mirror,” because, also, you can't do that because that's not realistic. 

16:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And I also think it's not realistic on the face if there are certain ones that are not coming out no matter what technique you use. Whether you use the tissue technique or the Q-tip technique or your fingers, whatever. Estheticians should also know when to stop. 

16:39 Trina Renea: For sure. 

16:37 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: There's certain ones you just cannot get out. And then point it out to the client, so if they see it…

16:40 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. Communication is key.

16:42 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, they're not going to be upset that the person didn't see that. Again, I recommend Retin-A. You recommend the glycolics. I'll tell patients…

16:48 Trina Renea: I also recommend retinol too. 

16:50 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Retinol, but I do prescription Retin-A. I say use it in four to six weeks, get a facial. I say everything will just fly right out. 

16:58 Trina Renea: Yeah. I hope.

16:59 Rebecca Gadberry: Before we even go there, though, do estheticians these days, because I haven't practiced in over 30 years, do they do extractions before you do a mask and an exfoliation or after? 

17:11 Trina Renea: Yes. Exfoliation then extractions, because you want to do exfoliation to get off the dead skin cells that are holding it in.

17:20 Rebecca Gadberry: That are holding the impaction in and to take off the surface, because when you've got impacted sebum and cells in that blackhead, they're holding on to the sides of the pore. So when you go to extract it, they hold on.

17:35 Trina Renea: Uh-hmm, so we'll do exfoliation of like an enzyme or a peel of some kind, or even microdermabrasion to help loosen up what and get to those clogged pores. And then that makes the extraction session so much easier. 

Then after extractions is when you want to put on something that's going to calm the skin from all the inflammation that you've caused from extraction, so you would do the mask after. And hopefully, estheticians, I hope you're listening out there, hopefully during the mask, your esthetician is giving you a lovely shoulder, arm, and hand massage, and not just leaving the room for 20 minutes. 

18:14 Rebecca Gadberry: Or sitting there staring at you with…

18:16 Trina Renea: Or talking to you. 

18:17 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Or talking about products and talking about how to have healthy skin and good habits. And can you talk a little bit about devices? Because I know there are so many devices out there that feel good, whether it's microcurrent or…

18:32 Trina Renea: Are you talking about devices that an esthetician uses in a facial? 

18:34 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes, ma'am. 

18:35 Rebecca Gadberry: Before we go to devices, though, I know that when I've gotten facials, I've had the esthetician who is dead silent, gives me no information. And when I ask her or him what's going on, they say, “Well, we want you to relax.” 

At the beginning of the treatment, I used to ask, “Would you like to know what we're doing and why or would you like to just have a silent treatment so you could relax, and then afterwards we'll talk about what happened and what I recommend for you?” But you should always leave your facial with recommendations on what to do once you leave. 

19:16 Trina Renea: 100%. 

19:17 Rebecca Gadberry: 100%. If not, the esthetician has not done their job, has not done a service to you. As a matter of fact, I know a chain of spas in the Missouri area that there is a sign in the bathroom that says if your esthetician does not recommend your home care, your facial is free, because it's that important. 

19:45 Trina Renea: It is. 

19:45 Rebecca Gadberry: It's that important. 

19:48 Trina Renea: You know, people are going to buy products from wherever they can get them. They're going to buy them from a store, from their doctor, from their esthetician, they're going to buy them no matter what. So an esthetician should not fear recommending because they know more about the skin than your Target shelf or your CVS shelf or your person at Macy's that's selling you products.

20:10 Rebecca Gadberry: Your online or Sephora, or Amazon.

20:13 Julie Falls: Or TikTok. 

20:14 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Sephora, YouTube.

20:16 Trina Renea: YouTube or TikTok. 

20:16 Rebecca Gadberry: When you go to an esthetician, you have now chosen somebody to work with caring for your skin. 

20:23 Trina Renea: Who's an expert with skincare. 

20:25 Rebecca Gadberry: Who's an expert with skincare.

20:26 Trina Renea: They should be. 

20:28 Rebecca Gadberry: And you are wearing the skin, but the esthetician is caring for it and guiding for the care. You’re partners in this. 

20:28 Trina Renea: Right, I am their concierge. I am the person I tell them, “Anytime you're out and about and you're being sold by Amazon or TikTok or something and you're like, ‘I think I wanna buy this device or I think I wanna buy this product’,” I'm like, "text me and tell me and I'll say, ‘Yeah, that's a good one.’” Or I may say, "No." Or if I don't know it, I'll say, "Let me do some research and I'll get back to you. Hold on a second.” Don't fast buy. 

21:01 Rebecca Gadberry: I used to know an esthetician in Indianapolis. Well, I still know him. He's wonderful. When he takes a new patient or a new client, he'll do the interview, he'll do the analysis, the consultation, which is an hour consultation. They walk down the hall, then he stands in front of the door of the room and he says, "Once you pass here, you know that I own your skin and you get to wear it." 

21:27 Trina Renea: That's nice. 

21:28 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: “And until you make that agreement, you don't walk in the door.” I love that. 

21:31 Trina Renea: That's cute. I like that. 

21:32 Rebecca Gadberry: Isn't that great? 

21:34 Trina Renea: Yeah. 

21:35 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But I also agree with you, whether they want a silent treatment or you want everything explained to you, that's like when you get a massage. If they're going too hard, you're going to say, “Oh, that's too hard,” or, “Go harder.” 

Same thing when you're having a facial. Talk to your esthetician. If you had chosen to have a silent treatment, but you're like, “Oh, that feels really good,” or, “That smells really good. What is that?” Or, “What are you doing?” Of course, communicate, communicate, communicate.

21:56 Trina Renea: Yeah, it’s really you read the room. Your client will either talk to you or not. If your client is being quiet, you be quiet. If the client is asking questions, you answer the questions. 

22:08 Rebecca Gadberry: What if the client is afraid to say anything? 

22:11 Trina Renea: So this is why you have a consultation in the very beginning. When you meet a person, you have a consultation with them. It warms them up to you to not feel like they're afraid to talk to you or they don't want to talk to you. You become friends with them. Because when you ask them questions, they see that you care about their skin and that you're really engaged with knowing about what's going on with them. 

So once I'm talking to them and going through the consultation with them, I don't have them fill it out. I ask them questions and then we go through it together. Well, actually, now it's actually emailed to them now, but we go through every single question. 

Once I get to know their skin, I almost know it in advance before even having to look at it, what I'm going to do on them. So I'll tell them in advance, “It appears that you need…” I'll repeat everything that they told me. You know, “Your skin feels dry, you have blackheads on your nose, which we will address. I'll help you with the dryness of your skin, but I will do some oxygen, probably a deep moisturizer and fusing mask, probably some oils. I may do…”

So depending on what they tell me is how I'm going to tell them. If they're like, “Oh, I feel so loose,” I'll be like, “Well, we're gonna do microcurrent and maybe some LED, because the two of them will really hit it.” So I tell them in advance.

Then some clients will say, “Well, can you tell me what you're doing as you go?”

And I'm like, “Yeah, totally,” and I'll tell them. But I do talk to them usually up into the point of extraction because I need to know how their face is feeling with the exfoliation. I'll be like, “How are you feeling on a scale of 1 to 10? Do you need a fan? Can I put heat?” Whatever I'm doing, I'll ask. “Does this feel too strong? Do you want me to go a little lighter?”

And then once I get into extractions, depending on the client, I may talk them through it and try and distract them so that they're not wincing in. 

24:14 Rebecca Gadberry: Think of kittens here. 

24:16 Trina Renea: Or they go to sleep, and then I'm like, “Okay, this is good.” Then I go quickly through. 

So you really just read the room. 

24:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: What about the devices? 

24:26 Trina Renea: Devices? Estheticians have options to use many devices. A lot of them are extremely gimmicky. I do tons of research before I bring in a device because a lot of them really don't do much. 

The ones that I find that are tried and true is, one, microdermabrasion, because it does a manual exfoliation. I really do like that device. I call that a device, I guess. 

24:55 Rebecca Gadberry: Why do you like that? And it's definitely a device. 

24:58 Trina Renea: Well, I personally like to do it as, sometimes I'll do it as the only exfoliation, but usually I'll do it after I do an enzyme or a light peel. Because the enzyme or the light peel loosens up all the dead skin cells that are at the surface so I can wipe those away. 

I'm not talking about a peel that you have to go home and you shed. I'm talking about superficial peels that you put on the skin. It peels the skin at the surface. You wipe it away. 

So then, if you looked through a microscope, some of those skin cells are still hanging on. They could be…

25:35 Rebecca Gadberry: For dear life. Oh, no.

25:37 Trina Renea: They're half on half off. So then I do microdermabrasion as like a buff and polish, is what I call it. So I sand down the skin after that, not strong because I don't want to irritate the skin. I just did an enzyme or a peel. But I buff and polish the skin, so then after you wash that off, the skin's like so good and glowy. Then extractions come out so much easier. 

I really do like microdermabrasion for that. It's really good for acne scars as well over a long, long period of time. It can help to just get more layers off. It's really good at getting multiple layers of dead skin off the top of the skin, so I like that device. 

I love, love, love microcurrent. 

26:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: What do you love about it, and what is it?

26:29 Rebecca Gadberry: Microcurrent.

26:30 Trina Renea: Microcurrent, is there's two metal prongs and there's a current that goes between them that helps to tighten the tiny little muscles in the face that are starting to fall. It also helps to work on the ATP of your cell. 

The way I like to explain ATP in really simple terms for everyone to understand, and this is nowhere medical at all so don't anyone judge me, is…

27:01 Rebecca Gadberry: Or chemical. 

27:03 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Nobody's judging you. 

27:04 Trina Renea: There's a cell and, in every cell, there's a mitochondria. Your mitochondria is like your engine of the cell. It's what keeps everything going. The ATP is like the oil that feeds the engine so the engine goes. So the ATP is very important to keep the engine energized and moving so that your cells are functioning properly. 

When we get older and our body doesn't make so much ATP anymore, you need to stimulate ATP growth. Microcurrent stimulates ATP growth. So it stimulates your body to create ATP, to energize the cell, I mean, energize the mitochondria to help the cells work better. 

I don't really personally agree with microneedling by itself. I think it works with RF.

27:56 Rebecca Gadberry: Which is? 

27:57 Trina Renea: Radio frequency on the tips of the needles, because that puts the heat energy right down to the collagen layer. So it helps to smooth out that collagen layer and then so you're getting the tightening, which I prefer over like a Thermage and Ulthera tightening.

28:17 Rebecca Gadberry: Which are dermatology treatments.

28:19 Trina Renea: Also dermatology. 

28:20 Rebecca Gadberry: And in California, we don't do microneedling as estheticians. Other states do. 

28:26 Trina Renea: I find that when you put a whole bunch of needles in the skin as an esthetician, and you're just rolling a thousand needles or even punching a bunch of needles into the skin, I find that it causes inflammation. And then your body runs to fix that area and your skin swells a little. So it looks like, oh, my God, I can see the wrinkles have gotten less. But it's a temporary thing because it's only that way until your body repairs the area and then the inflammation goes down and then your skin goes back to normal. 

29:02 Rebecca Gadberry: And inflammation is the bottom line of aging.

29:03 Trina Renea: Right. So why are you doing it? It's speeding up that aging process if you do it every month or daily or some things that people do. But I tell people, like for an event, if you want to do microneedling a few days before the event to give yourself that swell so you look like you're smoother. Once in a while is okay, but doing it all the time, I feel like it's going to prematurely age you. 

29:29 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah, and if an esthetician can't pop a zit with a needle, they certainly can't do microneedle, at least to the depth that…

29:35 Trina Renea: They shouldn’t. 

29:36 Rebecca Gadberry: In California.

29:37 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: In California, yes. At least to the depth that it's going to make a difference. But yes, you can buy the over-the-counter microneedling, that people buy on Amazon for 20 bucks and use it on your clients, but I don't recommend it. 

29:48 Trina Renea: But then also, some estheticians think that you can soak those needles into quats and then reuse them on people. 

29:55 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Scary. No way.

29:56 Trina Renea: You have to do a whole new one every time needles enter the skin. And estheticians, I know for sure, don't do that. They reuse the needles. 

30:05 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That’s frightening. That’s not okay. 

30:07 Rebecca Gadberry: And it's not where you buy the device. It's the practice of using the device that's not legal in California. So just buying a consumer device online and then an esthetician using it, that's not legal. 

30:20 Trina Renea: And then sometimes people have at-home devices where they have microneedling rollers. I'm like, “How do you clean that?” And they're like, “I just put some alcohol on it.” 

I'm like, “That's not gonna clean it. You could give yourself a Staph infection.” That's so bad. 

30:35 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Can I ask about facial pricing? Because I know that they range and they range in the country. You can get something probably under $100 and then there are $500 facials and there are $1,000 facials. So, Trina, you're the esthetician. I have estheticians in my office. I base my pricing on certain things. But I am curious about what your thoughts are on what the difference in price means for the consumer. 

31:03 Trina Renea: Well, I know it's mostly by demographic of where you're located. That has a huge part. So if you're living in a small town, your facials might be $80 or $50. It depends on where you live.

31:19 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: On what the demand is. Okay.

31:19 Trina Renea: Or $100, yeah. And if you're in Beverly Hills, you can charge $500 to $1,500 for a facial. I worked in Beverly Hills in your office and then I had a place in West Hollywood, and now I have a place in Toluca Lake and I could easily go to Beverly Hills and charge $500 no problem. But I don't do it because I don't want that clientele. 

That clientele is a higher-demand clientele. They are also a little trickier to deal with. I have some of them. But I don't want to work there and deal with them every day. So it is really on your demographic. 

Also, how long you've been doing it. So if you are a new esthetician, what I tell estheticians because I coach them is, get a mentor, have them coach you, learn how to do a really good facial, and then charge what they're charging when you start. That's what I did. 

And then you can give a discount. So if you want to say, “My facial is $300, but for you, I'm going to do it for $150,” you can do that in the beginning to get yourself, but keep your price point so they know that you're worth that value. 

32:34 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Valuable, yes. 

32:36 Trina Renea: Exactly. 

32:37 Rebecca Gadberry: And also, when you look at a price point of $500 or $1,500, ask what you're buying, what you're going to get for that facial, and who's doing it. What's their background?

32:47 Trina Renea: You're usually buying marketing. 

32:50 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, a lot of times, sometimes you're not. I have a client in New York. She's $5,000 a facial. Now, people fly in from all over the world for her and they spend a half a day with her working on their face. They come in every quarter. That's a specialized clientele. 

But she's also been doing this close to 50 years and she's worked with every type of skin you could possibly think of. The people, a lot of those people, their faces, their skin, are their livelihood. There are a lot of celebrities that do that. 

33:23 Trina Renea: I work on all kinds of people and I have different price points. My base facial is $350. I'm in Toluca Lake. I've been in the business a long time. I get referrals. I'm a referral base only. 

If I have to drive to Beverly Hills to do a client, I have an office that I could use there. I charge $500 for that same facial. And then if I have to go to your house because you're a celebrity, then I charge you $1,000, because it's a lot of work to have to do that. 

33:53 Rebecca Gadberry: To slap everything.

33:54 Trina Renea: Right, but I'm giving the same facial. I mean, not same facial. I do different things on different people, but it's not like you're getting a longer facial because it costs more or whatever. It just means where I'm at. 

If you come to me and you will come to my office and I can do it there, it's $350, period. And then I have other estheticians who do the same facial for a little less. 

34:17 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And I definitely think that as I've gotten older, I'm personally more interested in facials on myself. When I was younger, I didn't think I needed it. Now, I do see the value and I see the benefit in it, but I also see the equal importance of the at-home skincare. 

34:31 Trina Renea: 100%.

34:32 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: So whether it's recommended by the esthetician, but you have to do it. Because getting a facial four times a year or six times a year isn't going to make you glow. It's that plus all the stuff you do at home. 

34:42 Trina Renea: Oh, 100%. All my clients are on skincare that I recommend them because— I mean, some of them sway, of course, and buy stuff out there. Usually wrap around…

34:51 Rebecca Gadberry: Then they’ll come back and say, "I did it. I'm sorry. Can you fix it?" 

34:54 Trina Renea: Right. And they usually wrap back around. But I've been working with skincare for so long. I know the products in my office work. And if they don't work, they're out. 

35:06 Rebecca Gadberry: The products are out, not the clients.

35:06 Trina Renea: The products are out. And I really have worked with this product line for so long that I know they work. If I tell you it's going to work, it's going to work. I don't have people returning product. I don't give samples. Samples are the worst to me because nobody can see how a product works in three days. You have to use it. 

35:28 Rebecca Gadberry: Unless it's in an exfoliator or something. 

35:30 Trina Renea: Correct, if it's an exfoliator.

35:31 Rebecca Gadberry: That’s just immediate.

35:33 Trina Renea: If they want to touch and feel it, I open up my bottle in this thing and I'm like, “This is how it feels. This is how it smells.” I'm like, “Use it for an entire bottle before you stop and then decide if you think it's working or not.” It always does, but you have to give it that time. Because people just buy things because they think they're pretty or they smell good or they feel good.

35:50 Rebecca Gadberry: Smell good.

35:53 Trina Renea: And then they have this whole shelf of stuff. And when I tell people, “Take a picture of what you have. Put all your cleansers together, all your serums together, all your moisturizers and sunscreen so I can see what you're using.” Because a lot of times, they're using multiples of things, and I'll be like, “Okay…”

36:08 Rebecca Gadberry: Because they're not happy with one.

36:09 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And by the way, they're probably curating that photo. They're not really showing you everything because they're probably embarrassed of some of the stuff that they have, right? 

36:17 Trina Renea: I'm sure. They're like, “These are the things that I really use most of the time.”

36:20 Trina Renea: Or that I want her to think that I use.

36:22 Rebecca Gadberry: I'd like to add one more thing about pricing. That $80 facial is a basic facial. Then there may be other things that are added to it, like this mask is $125. This treatment modality is another $300. 

36:39 Trina Renea: Well, some people do it that way. They'll do add-ons. Some estheticians will start their base at a really low price.

36:46 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, so make sure you find out what you're getting. 

36:48 Trina Renea: And then they'll add on. “Oh, you want that? That's this much more, and this much more, and that much more.” And your facial can go up to $500. 

36:56 Rebecca Gadberry: And you shouldn't be asking your esthetician for something. They should be letting you know what works. 

37:01 Trina Renea: Right. I don't like that method because I feel like it feels very salesy when an esthetician is like, “Oh, I think you need this. It's gonna be $50 more. Oh, and you should get this. It's another hundred.” 

37:11 Rebecca Gadberry: Right, it should all be inclusive. 

37:12 Trina Renea: That's why I have one price. And I'm like, “I will include everything I can include in your facial time that you need on your skin, whether it's two exfoliations, one, three machines, two. It depends on that. 

And everybody's skin, when they come in, it's like, “How is your skin today?” You have to ask them because sometimes they'll be like, "Oh, my God, I'm breaking out." Or they'll say, "It's so dry. I went to Colorado and went skiing." Or they went to the ocean and used all this sunscreen and now their skin is red and irritated. So I have to treat them accordingly. 

37:45 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And I think that just on talking about the prices, it's good to have a budget. SkinMedica is a company that has a nice line. They're owned by Allergan. They did this study that showed women spend like $2,300 a year on skincare. Skincare. I think that's kind of high, but okay. They did the study. I have to believe them. 

So I think that you should have a similar budget, maybe not the similar number, but you should have a budget for facials, for esthetic procedures. I think it's a good way to look at it so then they won't be afraid when you want to recommend this peel, this add-on, this device, this $350 facial that they're sort of like in their yearly budget. Because it really should be an ongoing procedure. 

38:28 Rebecca Gadberry: It needs to be ongoing. And some estheticians or spas offer something called a series, where you purchase upfront a monthly…

38:38 Trina Renea: Right. 

38:38 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Memberships.

38:40 Trina Renea: Or a series of six. And if you buy six, you get the sixth for free so you only pay for five. 

38:46 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. It's a way to keep that in your budget. 

38:47 Trina Renea: If you pay in cash for your facials, you get a discount. So there are ways. 

I would say get a recommendation for an esthetician. Don't just go because it's cheap or whatever. Don't go to the fast, in-and-out places. Go to somebody who's going to make sure they're giving you a consultation.

I've gone to Beverly Hills and got $500 facials, $750 facials. I go in as an alias and I just want to see what they're doing. I am extremely disappointed every time, I have to say, because I go out of there going, “Oh, my God, my facial should be $1,000. My facial should be so much more. They're doing half of what I do, and they're just there. And I should just move there so I can make that money.” 

I struggle with this all the time. But it's crazy that your demographic can make such a big difference in your dollar. 

39:43 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Also, if you're saying that and the client has no idea what they're paying for is very little. Like you said, it's just fluff and that's not cool. 

39:50 Trina Renea: No. 

39:51 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, that's a fluff and— oh, Dr. Mark Lees, who's one of our regular guests, he has a great expression for it, which I cannot remember right now. But it's like a fluff-and-fold facial. But that's not it. It's very funny.

40:07 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Go to somebody who cares. Go to somebody who might even own studio.

40:10 Trina Renea: Who you have a connection with.

40:12 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: You have a connection with and that really does a great job with your skin.

40:16 Rebecca Gadberry: And remember that single estheticians that work by themselves and that have been in business for a long time, they're doing something right. 

40:22 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes.

40:24 Trina Renea: Yeah. I think also a lot of it is like a human-to-human. That contact, that you have a connection with this person. Like, you feel like you can trust them. You like what they're saying. It vibes with you. And you like the way that facial felt. You feel like you look better afterwards. It's all like a combo of things.

40:46 Rebecca Gadberry: And listen for the compliments a few days later, because…

40:49 Trina Renea: How your skin looks a few days later.

40:51 Rebecca Gadberry: That's very important. 

40:51 Trina Renea: It's usually like three or four days later, you're like, “Oh, wow.”

40:55 Rebecca Gadberry: One last thing. Should you always expect a facial massage when you have a facial?

41:01 Trina Renea: Facial massage. I actually would say no. Facial massages a lot are given in spas where you're supposed to do feel-good stuff. I find it to be a waste of time. 

People do need massage. I do massage while I'm doing my other things. So I do the massage while I'm doing the cleanse. 

41:22 Rebecca Gadberry: I do firming massage.

41:22 Trina Renea: It's all a super cleansing massage, which feels really good but I'm cleansing at the same time. So I'm double doing that. 

When I do the mask, after the mask at the end, after I do the arm massage and come back to take off their mask, I'll do some really deep kind of acupuncture— acupressure points. If I find that they have wrinkles, I'll push in that area where the muscles are really tight and I get in there with that. 

I also do a Hungarian lifting massage. It's very fast and up that I do when I'm working on someone with microcurrent. 

41:51 Rebecca Gadberry: Fascinating. She flipped her hands around really fast when she did that.

42:00 Trina Renea: Yeah. And so that's to really get the blood flow going and loosen up the fascia a little bit. It helps with that. 

Have you been taking videos, Taylor? 

42:09 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Do it again, Trina. 

42:10 Trina Renea: You're not taking this video. 

42:12 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I am.

42:15 Trina Renea: And that helps, like, I do it after microcurrent when I'm doing all the tightening, and then I like flip it up. 

But no, like to just do a specific face massage. It takes about 10 minutes of time and it's a real feel-good thing that you can do. 

But I also find, like after extractions and then you put on a mask, that's where people usually do the massage part of the facial. I find that it can irritate because of the acne that you've just extracted. So I don't like to do massage after extractions. 

42:45 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. It can also, if you're strengthening the skin, it can relax the skin. So it's counterintuitive for what you're trying to achieve. 

42:55 Trina Renea: Yeah. If you think it through as an esthetician, think it through really deeply, you will find your answers. You know, if you really think about it. Like, “Really? Should I be massaging the skin after extractions?” No.

43:09 Rebecca Gadberry: Regardless of what you were taught in school. 

43:11 Trina Renea: Right, because they teach you that in school. School is really wrong. 

43:14 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I'm going to go make myself a facial appointment, Trina. 

43:16 Trina Renea: Yeah, come back. She just had one a little while ago. 

43:20 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: It was amazing.

43:20 Rebecca Gadberry: You know, I've never had a facial from you. We could give each other facials. 

43:25 Trina Renea: Oh, my God, come and get a facial. 

43:25 Rebecca Gadberry: Do the girlfriend routine thing, yeah. 

43:27 Trina Renea: Come and get a facial. 

43:28 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, I would love that. 

43:29 Trina Renea: All right. Well, let's wrap it up. 

If you have any questions about what we talked about today, if you have any questions for me, Trina the Esthetician, if you need any recommendations of any kind, you can send us an email at info@faciallyconscious.com, and I'd be happy to answer your questions. 

And if you're an esthetician and you have questions or you want to ask me anything, please give me a call. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Vicki or Rebecca, we'd be happy to answer them for you. 

43:59 Rebecca Gadberry: And just a reminder, Trina is a master esthetician here in Southern California and she does consult other estheticians, especially estheticians who work in dermatologist's offices as well as estheticians who want a mentor. So you can send her an email.

44:17 Trina Renea: Yes, a lot of doctors, unfortunately, don't teach their estheticians extractions because they think they know them. 

44:21 Rebecca Gadberry: Not anymore. 

44:24 Trina Renea: And Dr. Vicki taught me, and I remember I used to have other doctor offices that knew that I was taught by her. The estheticians would come and get facials from me in there and be like, "Can you help me learn how to do that? I'm working in Dr. So-and-So's office." 

And I'm like, "Oh, my God, why don't they teach you, guys?" So I do teach that too.

44:47 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, it was lovely and I learned a lot.

44:50 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And the esthetician world is better because of Trina and her teaching, and we should give back. That's my motto of the day. Whatever you do out there, please give back. 

45:00 Trina Renea: Yes, help your fellow estheticians. Help your people, your peers, because we're a team. Because if you're the only good esthetician and everybody else is giving your business a bad name, well, then that doesn't help your career.

So estheticians, don't be stingy, because I know a lot of estheticians are like, “I'm not gonna tell you what I do because I don't want you to take my ideas.”

45:23 Rebecca Gadberry: You can only work on so many faces. 

45:26 Trina Renea: You can only work on so many people. You have a max, you know. So share your knowledge with your peers and share advice with each other to make all of you better estheticians. It gives us a good name in the business. Just my two cents. 

45:39 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: On that note, I love that. Have a lovely Saturday, everybody.

45:44 Trina Renea: Yes, have a lovely week. 

45:44 Rebecca Gadberry: Or Tuesday.

45:45 Trina Renea: Or whatever day. 

45:47 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, it's Saturday today.

45:48 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Or Friday. 

45:48 Rebecca Gadberry: You'll be hearing us on a Tuesday. 

45:50 Trina Renea: Or maybe a Friday or a Sunday. 

45:53 Rebecca Gadberry: Or a Wednesday or whenever you decide to tune in. 

45:57 Trina Renea: Well, thanks for listening to our facial episode.

46:00 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Bye-bye, everybody. 

46:02 Trina Renea: Bye.

[Outro] This podcast is so needed in the world right now. There's so much information out there that it's hard to know who to believe and if it's right for you. We are very excited to be your guides and bring you Facially Conscious. You can find info we talked about today in our show notes and on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook. 

Please subscribe, like and review us wherever you listen to podcasts. This helps others find us. And if you have any questions or ideas, please send us an email at info@faciallyconscious.com.